Amber Dembowski—Monday Mindset

[00:01] Announcer:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, helping you build capacity for instructional leadership. Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center, Dr. Justin Baeder. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:13] Justin Baeder:

I'm your host, Justin Baeder, and I'm honored to be joined today by Amber Dembowski. Amber is the host of Monday Mindset, a podcast on learning how to think better, and she's also the principal of two elementary schools.

[00:27] Announcer:

And now our feature presentation.

[00:30] Justin Baeder:

Amber, welcome to Principal Center Radio.

[00:32] Amber Dembowski:

Hey, thanks so much, Justin.

[00:33] Justin Baeder:

So I'm fascinated by this idea of a weekly podcast for educators on mindset. How did you become interested in focusing on your own mindset and sharing ideas? strategies for just improving the way that we think. Because I think sometimes, you know, we just kind of take the way we think for granted. It just is what it is. How did you become a student of mindset and a kind of a coach of mindset?

[00:58] Amber Dembowski:

Well, like you said, I'm the principal of two elementary buildings. But prior to that, I worked in a position that was similar to an instructional coach and trainer for teachers. And it was through that work that I've become in tune, I guess, to the power of how we show up and the importance of taking care of our teachers. Our focus needs to be on the energy that we wanna bring. And if we do that in the end, everyone, the teachers and the students and the administrators will be thriving. So to help create this culture, I started sharing a podcast, Monday Mindset, a couple of years ago.

[01:34]

And the podcast itself is partnered with a planner for the week. And they're all about how we care for each other, maybe a reminder to dream big, or about being mindful of the power of our words. And of course, it's always about how to feel positive and show up ready to take on whatever the week brings. I'm fascinated with how the brain works and our brain naturally goes towards the negative. So we honestly have to train our brain to think and see all of the positive.

[02:06] Justin Baeder:

Yeah, absolutely. And even if our brains didn't naturally do that, I mean, just this job brings us so much. But, you know, by its very nature, people bring us the negative stuff so that they can get on with the good work of teaching and learning. And often we're there to, you know, to clean things up or to solve problems. How has thinking about mindset week after week and thinking about kind of a focus for the week through the planner affected How has that equipped you to deal with that tough stuff? Because there is so much of that.

[02:34]

And I imagine being principal of two buildings, you kind of get a double dose of that.

[02:39] Amber Dembowski:

You know, Justin, I was listening to a recent podcast interview that you had with the author of The New Team Habits. Well, in that podcast interview, she had said that every school and school district actually across the nation has the same what and the same why. And that we're all focused on the same North Star. And that stuck with me because she's so true. We're all out there trying to impact student learning. But what makes us different is our how.

[03:07]

And I couldn't agree more. And I think that goes back to our mindset. I think right now as educators, we're tired. We pour everything into everything that we do. We pour our heart and soul into everything. And yet sometimes it just seems like it's never enough.

[03:24]

And so the Monday Mindset podcast is out there to help educators feel inspired every week and then to return home every day feeling fulfilled. I think it's important that we take the time to rewrite the narrative of the teacher's life. You know, just the other day I had a parent stop me in the hall and she started to tell me that she grew up with teachers all around her. Her mom and her grandma are both teachers. And she said she remembered many conversations growing up that had a negative tone about teaching. She heard about the workload, about the crazy parents, about the difficult students and the overbearing principal.

[04:04]

And I think we just need to flip that lens so that the teachers and administrators can go home at the end of the day and just stop feeling this heavy weight on them. And it can be done. That's the best part. All of those things don't go away, but there are things that can be done to shift that perspective.

[04:24] Justin Baeder:

And if we take the demands of the job as a given, it probably doesn't do us any good to wish that nobody ever brought us these heavy negative things that we have to deal with. We would all love to never have to deal with child protective services or anything like that, but the job is what it is. What do we have control over in terms of our mindset? Because I think that's a term we hear mostly in terms of growth mindset, and certainly we all want to have a growth mindset. But when it comes to the way that we feel when we walk out the door at the end of a long week, what do we have control over and how do we take that control?

[04:58] Amber Dembowski:

You know, it's all about, you know, thinking this and not that type mentality. Before we started the interview, I had shared with you that we have parent-teacher conferences. And sometimes, you know, that can be really draining because they're long days. Sometimes they're intense conversations. Sometimes they're, you know, great conversations. But oftentimes what we'll do is we we dread it.

[05:22]

We dread the time. We dread the amount of energy that we put into it. And we're thinking, oh, my gosh, here's parent teacher conferences. I'm not even going to get home until nine o'clock at night. I'm so tired. You know, all of these negative thoughts.

[05:39]

And so if we just stop that thought process right when it starts and we reframe that to think something different. Like, this is such a great time to connect with the families. I can't wait to celebrate the growth that their child has made. You're stopping the negative and you're reframing it into a positive. And by the end of that night, you're going to feel fulfilled and excited. about all of those connections that you made instead of tired and drained and overwhelmed.

[06:09] Justin Baeder:

So I'm thinking about the kind of basic mindset reframe that we've all heard since we were kids of optimism versus pessimism, right? Is the glass half empty or is the glass half full? Is this parent event tonight an opportunity for me to connect with parents and build relationships or is it just one more thing that is going to make me exhausted by the time I finally get to go home? What are some of those kind of reframes that we can give ourselves to see things differently?

[06:38] Amber Dembowski:

You know, the best advice I can give on that is to not resist reality. When we try to resist reality, oh, I wish we didn't have parent-teacher conferences. Oh, man, I wish this kid wasn't in my class. I wish I had that class instead. You know, we're wishing against what reality is. And when we're trying to resist reality, that's when we get into this frame of thought that our life is horrible or our life isn't good enough.

[07:11]

So when we reframe our thinking, we understand this is reality. I have parent-teacher conferences. These students are mine and I'm here to serve them right now. When you accept that first, it's easier to reframe your thinking to the glass is full instead of half empty, half full rather than half empty.

[07:29] Justin Baeder:

That's the great thing about mindset, isn't it? That it's like it's the thing that we control, the thing that we always have a choice over. And we have a choice not only of how we process our own thoughts, but how we present as leaders and educators, how we present to other people, which in turn affects their mindset, right?

[07:47] Amber Dembowski:

Yeah, so I guess if I could pick just one thing that I would like school leaders to do with this positive mindset, it would be to get into the classrooms as much as possible, of course, which I know you are constantly encouraging that as well. To recognize the teachers for the talents that they're bringing to the classroom and to just let go of the critiques. And I think that's going to be mind blowing for many people. We've all been trained to give feedback, providing two key ideas. And it's to identify something good that you saw in the classroom and then to ask a question, prompting the teacher to think about a strategy or possibly providing a suggestion. And the idea behind that kind of feedback is good, but it honestly doesn't work.

[08:36]

And it goes back to this whole mindset and positive culture that leaders are trying to create. The idea of the technique with that feedback of a positive and then one area to grow is really to give them a pat on the back and then to give them something to reflect on. And, you know, if it's part of an evaluation conversation or a coaching conversation, that's all fine. But if you're just visiting classrooms and completing walkthroughs, and just trying to leave frequent feedback for the teachers, then it's actually going to work against you. I recently read a book, Nine Lies About Work. It's by Marcus Buckingham.

[09:16]

And he totally agrees with this concept. He says that if we work hard to just capture the great moments and stop there without continuing on with the critique, that it will absolutely transform our work. There's also a Gallup study completed in 2009 that found when employees are given only positive feedback, just leaving off the critique, only positive feedback, that 98% of them will become highly engaged in their work. And when we have engaged teachers, they naturally and intrinsically want to learn and grow and get better. So the same study found that when we partner our positive feedback with a critique or a suggestion, only 66% of the employees will remain engaged.

[10:12]

The other 34% shut down because they think that we don't notice all the great things they're already doing. The critiques or the suggestions negate anything positive that you've shared. Marcus Buckingham in his book also talks a lot about how people don't crave feedback And he has a lot of research that backs that. He says that people crave attention and positive attention at that. So when you create this culture of noticing the positives of seeking out the talent in the classroom, you're focusing on this positive culture and the mindsets will also shift within the teachers when you do that.

[10:52] Justin Baeder:

There's so much there that's so powerful. And I agree completely that when we have to sandwich together a positive and a constructive criticism or something that's designed to create reflection around a possible improvement, the ratio just seems off. And I think anytime we have something that we think we're supposed to do because we're the principal, we have to really check ourselves and say, okay, would I do that to someone in my personal life that I cared about? Would I only ever compliment my spouse or a family member or my in-laws when I also had a critique for them? Like would I say, okay, here is one positive and one, you know, suggestion for like, that would be so weird, wouldn't it?

[11:38] Amber Dembowski:

Absolutely. That's a great example. Yes. And when you partner it with a critique, it takes away the trust factor because then the teachers are questioning, like, do you really think I'm doing a good job? Or is this just your nice way of trying to get me to do something differently? But when you're just sharing the positives, that trust factor builds.

[11:58]

And once that trust builds, they're going to start coming to you asking for critiques. And that's when it's completely appropriate.

[12:05] Justin Baeder:

Well, and I think the whole idea of unsolicited critique, you know, we give ourselves a pass on that because we say, well, I'm the principal. It's my job to provide that kind of feedback. But it is very strange for people. It is very awkward for people to hear this kind of one-to-one ratio of compliments to critiques. And they have a choice, right? They have a choice of whether to listen to that or whether to put up the barriers and be defensive.

[12:29]

And I hear from a lot of principals who are surprised that teachers are defensive and And it's like, well, have you ever been criticized? Was it fun? Do you enjoy it? And we don't. And I think it creates this one-to-one ratio where, as you said, people don't know. Do you think I'm doing a good job?

[12:44]

Are you just always going to give me 50-50 feedback because you always want to have a compliment and a suggestion? Or does that mean that I'm only doing a 50% good job? And if everybody is getting that ratio, does that mean everybody is doing an equally good job? And I love the framing that you had around people wanting attention rather than feedback. I think that's so powerful just to know, for people to know that as leaders, we are paying attention and appreciating what they're doing.

[13:16] Amber Dembowski:

Absolutely. And you know what? I think there's many reasons why it's hard for leaders to get in there and get that work done now. And I know you know, and I know we've lived it. We can have the best intentions of getting into the classrooms. But our days are dictated, of course, by the needs of others.

[13:39]

And there's just so many demands and unexpected demands that that can get in the way. But I think the main thing that gets in the way is all the initiatives and the pressure of school improvement in general. And this idea of focusing on the positives just seems like fluff to so many people. Many people don't believe it will amount to much. But honestly, if it's intentional and done with a purpose. then I believe it's truly the secret to a thriving school.

[14:12] Justin Baeder:

Talk to us about some of the long-term impacts, because obviously it can be more fun to walk out the door with a positive mindset, but talk about the impacts on the staff, on the actual improvement of the school when we approach our staff and we approach each day with a better mindset.

[14:30] Amber Dembowski:

You know, when I first started in this district six years ago in my first school, the staff that I joined, they were ready. They were ready for a change. I give ongoing surveys just to kind of keep the pulse on the staff. And one of the questions on the survey is, are you happy at work? Because I want to know that they want to come to work every morning and they feel fulfilled at the end of the day. And that has never wavered below a seven on a 10 point scale.

[15:03]

And it's been as high as a 10 from all staff before. So I feel really proud of that because when I first got there, I knew that that wasn't the case. And it's not just about the teachers, you know, being happy, even though, yes, that's what we want. But what that then turns into is thriving students. And so when I first arrived at that school, we weren't performing the way we should be. Our scores weren't at all what, you know, indicative of our community.

[15:37]

The scores weren't where they should be, essentially. And so through this work of positive mindset, of seeking out the talents in the classroom, noticing all the great things, bringing to the forefront of the teacher's mind of the impact that they have on student learning. Through all of that work, you know, two years later, there was a huge jump in the performance at the school. And we almost had 100 percent. We were so close to 100 percent of our students performing on grade level, even though we're in a area of poverty in the area of reading. And then the following year, the same thing happened in math.

[16:21]

So people think it's fluff, but it's definitely not fluff. Students, teachers, everyone is thriving in schools that focus on that.

[16:32] Justin Baeder:

You know, we save so much in terms of just the cost of turnover, the cost of burnout, the cost of conflict. And appreciation doesn't really cost anything, does it?

[16:44] Amber Dembowski:

Absolutely. You don't need a jeans day every day of the week just to get through the year. Appreciation goes a long ways.

[16:54] Justin Baeder:

Absolutely. It's interesting to me. I think it's true that people have different kind of love languages or different things that they appreciate. But I see a lot of principals working very hard on some sort of tangible thank you. some sort of snack cart or drink cart, maybe bring drinks around or some sort of physical kind of thing, which great if you can show appreciation that way, that's fabulous. But what are some of the mindsets that we can pass on or the behaviors that we can exhibit as leaders that will make that biggest difference to teachers?

[17:29]

What are some of your recommendations from the podcast?

[17:32] Amber Dembowski:

It's so funny that you asked that question because I just had a principal the other day call me she said that it was recommended that she ask how I raise staff morale. And she was at the end of the conversation. She said, I was expecting you to tell me to provide donuts on Friday and to give him another gene day and all of the things that you had just mentioned. Not that I don't do those things. I do do those things, but that definitely is not what will carry the weight during the hard times. That's only momentarily making the teachers happy in their work.

[18:11]

So I guess from my perspective, staff morale comes from the way you show up every single day. And I tell the teachers this for their students as well. So the way I show up is going to reflect through the teachers and the way the teachers show up is going to reflect through their students. So if I show up with positive energy, I'm ready to get into those classrooms. I walk in with a smile. I'm noticing and I'm not just giving compliments to give compliments.

[18:44]

I'm noticing the work that they're doing and how it's impacting student learning. It's very purposeful. And they take that personally and they take pride in that and feel success in their work when I'm doing that. So every time I walk into a classroom, I'm looking for those things. Now, are there going to be areas where the teacher can improve? Absolutely, because everyone has that.

[19:08]

But I'm going to zero in on the talents that I see and the great things that they're bringing to the instruction in that moment. I will tell you, I mean, I'm not going to make it up either. So if I walk into a classroom and it's a moment in time when it's just kind of everything's going wrong, You know, I'll just smile at the teacher, check in with the student and walk back out. I'm not going to provide false feedback as far as what I see in the classroom either. But when you create this culture of I'm here in a nonjudgmental way, I'm only seeking out the great things that you're offering. The teachers aren't fearful of you walking into their classroom.

[19:52]

They want to hear from you. They want to see you. And then they become energized. And this translates to the students as well.

[20:01] Justin Baeder:

Well, Amber, I think a lot of people are probably nodding their heads right now with everything that you've been saying. For our listeners who want more of your Monday mindsets, where can they go online to subscribe to your podcast? And tell us a little bit more about what they can expect to get from that podcast.

[20:18] Amber Dembowski:

Sure. So if you head on over to my website, which is just my name, first and last name, www.amberdembowski.com, you can subscribe to my podcast there. And when you subscribe, you'll get a weekly email that has a direct link to my podcast and then also a printable planner that is just a It complements the podcast in a way to help you purposefully plan for the week. And then, of course, I do some consultant work on the side with school leadership teams.

[20:54]

I'm getting ready to launch an online course, pulling out the pieces that I've received a lot of great feedback about. And it's actually about the feedback that we were just talking about. And the course will launch in the fall. And some of that course will include understanding the continuum of teachers and understanding the type of feedback that each of those teachers need, and then how to give them that feedback or the attention that nurtures the growth in them.

[21:23] Justin Baeder:

And again, your website is amberdembowski.com. We'll put a link to that in the show notes. And of course, people can subscribe in iTunes or wherever they get podcasts, right?

[21:33] Amber Dembowski:

Absolutely.

[21:33] Justin Baeder:

Just look for the Monday Mindset. Well, Amber, thank you so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio. It's been a pleasure to speak with you today.

[21:40] Amber Dembowski:

Thanks so much, Justin. I appreciate it.

[21:42] Announcer:

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