[00:01] SPEAKER_00:
Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.
[00:06] Announcer:
Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high-performance instructional leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.
[00:15] SPEAKER_01:
I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to be joined today by Bill Starrett, PhD. Bill is a former principal and current faculty member and program coordinator for the Master's in School Administration program at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. and the author of several books, including the one we're here to talk about today, Igniting Teacher Leadership. How do I empower my teachers to lead and learn?
[00:39] Announcer:
And now, our feature presentation.
[00:42] SPEAKER_01:
Bill, welcome back to Principal Center Radio.
[00:44] SPEAKER_02:
Thank you, Justin. It's great to be back here with you once again.
[00:47] SPEAKER_01:
Well, thanks, Bill. I wonder if we could start by talking about what teacher leadership is in your book, both in terms of what we need to be thinking about as leaders and in terms of its impact on school culture, on student learning. What is teacher leadership?
[01:03] SPEAKER_02:
Absolutely. Well, it's very crucial, first and foremost. And I begin by really challenging principles. just to remember their work as teachers. You know, the best principals never forget that they are teachers. They're still teaching.
[01:18]
And the best principals, superintendents, the most effective school leaders still see the importance of teaching as first and foremost in their work, in their lives. So teacher leadership is key. You know, I start by quoting Jack Welch when he says, you know, before you are a leader, success is all about growing yourself. And then when you become a leader, you realize success is all about growing others. So I think I would really focus on that phrase, growing others. You know, as principals, we're continuing to push ourselves to learn, to grow, to meet the needs of our respective roles.
[01:58]
But we need to ensure, because we are uniquely poised as principals, that we focus on that. Teacher leadership, How do we ensure that we are fostering learning, that we are encouraging growth in our teachers? So teacher leadership, first and foremost, it's shared. We're willing as principals when it comes to issues of school improvement, when it comes to issues of managing the school, of hiring colleagues, that we are willing to share that role. And not that we're just saying somebody else do the work, but we're willing to collaboratively share the work. We're willing to listen.
[02:33]
We're willing to to take the thoughts of our teachers and to help put them into action.
[02:39] SPEAKER_01:
So, Bill, I know a lot of the research on distributed leadership or shared leadership tells us that it's kind of an inherent property of school, right? That whether we like it or not, whether we acknowledge it or not, leadership is a distributed phenomenon. And in fact, I think we've got to embrace that fact because there's so much more work to do in our schools around improvement, around meeting the needs of our students, that if it's just the job of people who have a formal title of leader, There's work that's not going to get done. There's leadership that's going to need to be exercised that's not going to be exercised. So I'm excited about the prospect of strengthening teacher leadership. And I wonder, in your view, and as you describe in the book, what is it that teacher leadership can actually accomplish?
[03:22]
What do teacher leaders do when they're activated, when they're ignited?
[03:27] SPEAKER_02:
Well, in short, they move the success of students and colleagues forward. So in other words, if you look at the seven domains that the teacher leader model standards focus on, and this is from the exploratory consortium, they have seven domains. And I would just summarize them as first and foremost, fostering collaborative culture. And this helps, you know, to support student learning. The second one is using research. The third one is promoting professional learning.
[03:56]
And I'm just summarizing this. The fourth is improving instruction. The fifth one is promoting the use of assessments and data, things we talk about all the time. You know, what do the data say? The sixth one is outreach and collaboration. Are we thinking beyond the walls of our classroom, the walls of the school?
[04:14]
And then finally, how are we advocating for not just student learning, but also for the profession? So if you look at all of those seven, that's a lot. And I think when we look at the power of teacher leadership, it's very important that that we make sure that we are first and foremost as principals listening. I try within this book to share a variety of examples, examples of teachers, examples of principals and a superintendent who really offer insight. And I share an example of a principal who was successful in both Ohio and North Carolina. And one thing he really emphasized was having quarterly meetings with his staff and just asking questions such as, how are you doing?
[04:57]
you know, in your work, in your role? How are your students doing to make sure that that focus is first and foremost on the students? And then what can I do to help? And being very proactive and listening so that we can enable teachers to do all of those things that we just talked about. You know, when you look at those seven components, that's a lot. And I think we have to be very specific about understanding first and foremost the needs of students, the challenges that teachers are facing, and then work in a very targeted way, again, collaboratively to define and then support teacher leadership in our school.
[05:35] SPEAKER_01:
Well, I love that starting with listening and actually making a habit of listening. And are you talking about one-on-one meetings that this leader had with all of his staff?
[05:42] SPEAKER_02:
Yes. And that goes into the time management piece. You think, well, you know, think of this as a big, busy high school, for instance. Is that even feasible? You know, And the questions become, how do I involve my assistant principals? How do I ensure that I am at least perhaps once a quarter listening to a teacher and working with my assistant principals to do the same thing?
[06:02]
But carving out that time to set aside 30, 40 minutes and just to sit down with teachers. Oftentimes, principals don't do this until their end-of-year mandated evaluation meeting. So we've got to make sure on the front end that we're being proactive
[06:19] SPEAKER_01:
and listening to our teachers and i think we'll learn a lot and we'll be able to set goals that are meaningful well i was thinking back to that list of seven standards and a lot of them sound like things that as administrators we tend to traditionally see as our domain you know those are those are leadership responsibilities to talk about assessments to talk about advocacy to kind of uphold some of those things that you know if we think those are just ours as administrators and i know we have a lot of people in different roles listening to this interview But if administrators kind of hog those leadership roles, it seems to me that we're leaving a lot on the table, a lot of leadership potential that is there that is ready to be tapped into.
[06:57] SPEAKER_02:
You're exactly right, Justin. And I think one example of how we see this is through professional development. When you think of the role of principal, he or she is often charged with leading staff development, with working with central office to help define the needs. A lot of times it's a one-size-fits-all approach. Well, as much as we talk about differentiation with student learning, we need to practice that with adult learners as well. And that's a key point from the book, too.
[07:28]
I cite the cognitive coaching model of always remembering that the teacher is also an adult learner. You know, being reflective in our work and not just coming in with a set of pre-established goals or outcomes for a teacher, but encouraging the teacher to realize that he or she is a lifelong learner and to really be reflective and to think about areas in which they need to grow. So, for instance, I share in here an example of a middle school team, a principal who worked with a lead teacher and instructional coach to sort of have rotating faculty meetings. So if you think about a lot of times in faculty meetings, we're having people from the outside when it comes to staff development come and share tips and strategies. Well, the principal realized that there's something to be gained by going to other classrooms and sort of starting off each meeting by empowering a teacher to maybe share a mini lesson, to share something like a transition, how at a middle school you might get students from one science station to another, or involving the arts, having the art teacher share an activity that's helpful and relates to those other content areas, having
[08:43]
a band or music teacher, start off with music and emphasize the importance of movement, regardless of age, regardless of what you're teaching, of movement within the classroom too. So again, that step alone, Justin, in getting ourselves out of this traditional meeting where we're always having the faculty meeting in the large library room or in the cafeteria, and it's just sort of sit and get managerial sort of development, if at all. But having teachers take ownership and then What you'll find is great instructional leadership takes the form of teacher discussion, teacher-led collaboration, and teachers feel like they have something to really learn because when we're always looking to the outside for answers, there can be an initial skepticism. Does this speaker know what I'm really grappling with on a day-to-day basis?
[09:35]
Do they get what I'm facing in my role? Do they know my kids? Do they know my school? Well, when you empower your teachers, in this sort of leadership capacity you build that sort of ethos from within.
[09:49] SPEAKER_01:
Absolutely. And I love the idea of having people who are the closest to the work make the decisions about that work on a day-to-day basis. Because I think that's something that we get ourselves into trouble with as administrators, that often we lack the information or we lack the experience firsthand of doing something, and we make decisions about that. And we expect teachers to support those decisions when often they would be much better at making those decisions if given the opportunity, if involved, if empowered to do that.
[10:19] SPEAKER_02:
You're exactly right, Justin. And think about ways you can encourage teachers to network outside of the school, too. I really like, and I talk about in here, the whole EdCamp phenomenon, the model where, you know, it's not this prescribed format, but you're having teachers sort of generate what they're willing to share. You have the rule of two feet where you can, you know, move and find something most relevant to you. That takes trust from the part of the administrator, and it takes a sense of, you know, affirming the teachers and encouraging them to do this sort of work. And, I mean, we talk about authenticity in professional development and staff development.
[11:02]
That is authenticity, I think, at its greatest, because for you to spend your time listening and teacher's time is very valuable. And as much as we can convey that in our roles as principal that we appreciate and that we are valuing their time, that's going to help us inform things such as these, you know, having teachers host the initial host faculty meetings and sort of have an initial time of affirmation and best practices in their respective classroom. And for us to be participants in that, for that EdCamp model that I mentioned and, Those sort of things are very important for us, again, as principals, to support and to empower teacher leadership from within.
[11:40] SPEAKER_01:
So, Bill, I have to ask, what was the problem that you noticed in our profession specifically that prompted you to write Igniting Teacher Leadership? What did you see that we were doing that was not in alignment with the vision that we've been talking about so far?
[11:55] SPEAKER_02:
I think oftentimes just in principals, especially new principals, they want to show that their school communities, they are willing to lead, that they are willing to get the work done, that they will do whatever it takes to make sure that they deliver results. And this can be in the form of those initial quick wins where you're tweaking schedules and working on making the school a more presentable, safer place to long-term school improvement goals. But again, I think that the problem that you're asking about often creeps in when we think that leadership is a for principals, first and foremost, in that you associate leadership with the principal office. Well, many effective principals will tell you the less time they spend in the office, the better. Being able to see what's happening within the schools and to empower teacher leadership roles. And there's a variety of teacher leadership roles.
[12:46]
And I touch on these in the book, you know, from grade level chairs or department heads to your new teacher mentors, to your curriculum innovators who are perhaps just being tasked with revamping curriculum maps, your technology liaisons, your special education lead teachers who are working with numerous adults and students and finding the best strategies, resources, working to leverage all sorts of resources at their disposal. You have instructional coaches, and this role can take on very different forms in different schools and districts. you know, your specials or arts lead teachers, you know, who work, a PE teacher may come in contact at the elementary level with every single student and most teachers in their roles. And yet, if we're not really empowering them in leadership capacity, that can also become a problem too.
[13:37]
So I think oftentimes, I had to boil it down to two things, time and focus. So there's some strategies we talked about in the book to sort of, you know, leverage the role of principal to work with you know, our limited resources. And time is a big resource. In education, you know, you look at where our funding goes, it's toward people. It's toward our human resources. So how do we ensure that we are maximizing that without just adding something on to teachers' plates?
[14:06]
Because the worst thing that can happen is a teacher says, oh no, my principal's been to another conference. He or she's coming back with all these great ideas, but I don't really see anything being taken away. So we need to be willing to say, what can I take off your plate?
[14:19] SPEAKER_01:
Right. And even to ask that question, you know, what needs to come off of your plate so that you can lead in this way?
[14:24] SPEAKER_02:
This is a great question for new principal. What are some initiatives that we have done in the last three years, the last five years that maybe need to phase out, you know, to die a natural death? What is it that, and then also asking like a formalized meeting, such as a school improvement team meeting, what have our school improvement goals been the last five years? And where are we with those? What do we need to maybe relieve teachers from that we've been asking them to do as well? It's a great, great point.
[14:54] SPEAKER_01:
So Bill, give us a kind of a framework. What do you think are some concrete actions that leaders can take on an ongoing basis to maximize teacher leadership?
[15:04] SPEAKER_02:
You know, I think throughout the book, One thing that I try to emphasize is the importance of building in habits. So I think the last time we talked, we talked about one of the other books, Short on Time, time management. So time comes back into this in certain ways with teacher leadership, but emphasizing aspects such as having a daily written goals list. It sounds cliche. A lot of people say to write goals, but I think if you focus on You know, we like acronyms, so I'm going to offer an acronym, and it's WATCH. And it's think about your day as a teacher leader or as a principal through the WATCH acronym.
[15:43]
And that's, first of all, welcome. As a principal, how are you welcoming your colleagues to school? Where are you positioning yourself physically every morning? For me, it was right out there front and center. As the buses came through, it might be, you know, strategically mixing that up. If you have students walking around, biking, et cetera, that you are a positive point of contact.
[16:04]
As a teacher, are you there at the front of the door? Are you making sure that you're providing time for students to talk in positive ways and to share ideas early in the class to sort of jumpstart engagement? So that welcome part. The second letter, A, is affirm. How are you making sure that you're providing those positive points of affirmation so that you're celebrating the success from within your school as a principal or if you're a teacher? leader from within your classroom to what are you doing to recognize students and teachers for their work?
[16:36]
T, remember, I come back to that very first point of teaching. How are you supporting teaching? As a principal, are you focusing on being present and looking for those great ideas from within? Are you making sure that you're visiting those arts teachers and not just the high stakes testing areas? where we spend a lot of time giving feedback on, but are you looking to celebrate examples and ideas and strategies from within the building throughout the building? The C would be connect.
[17:07]
How are you making sure that those great ideas and exemplar lessons are shared? You know, we focus a lot on what's wrong with teaching and with our schools, but are we celebrating enough of what's right? Are we, Finding ways for teachers to share best practices to maybe host that rotational faculty meeting. And then H, being reflective about our habits. For me, my habits as a principal, I knew exactly what I was doing first and foremost with that welcoming part. After that, I knew where I might be going based on my calendar, certain classrooms I'd be visiting, et cetera.
[17:43]
But are we making sure that we're continually encouraging habits that Whether it's those quarterly meetings that I mentioned at the very beginning for the busy principal to sit down and listen to teachers, are we focusing habits that are going to support teachers and ultimately benefit our students?
[18:01] SPEAKER_01:
So the book is Igniting Teacher Leadership. How do I empower my teachers to lead and learn? And Bill, if people want to find you, find more out about the book online, where can they go?
[18:12] SPEAKER_02:
Absolutely, Justin. And thank you again for the opportunity to share. I'm active on Twitter, Bill Starrett, all lowercase letters. And also, if you are interested in this book or any of the other books that Justin mentioned, ASCD.org. I have an author page there that you can find this book, Igniting Teacher Leadership, as well as the other books, Short on Time, Insights into Action.
[18:33]
And I look forward to continuing the dialogue with you.
[18:36] SPEAKER_01:
Thanks so much, Bill.
[18:37] SPEAKER_02:
Thank you, Justin.
[18:40] SPEAKER_00:
And now, Justin Bader on high-performance instructional leadership.
[18:44] SPEAKER_01:
So high-performance instructional leaders, what did you take away from my conversation with Bill Starrett about igniting teacher leadership? One of the big takeaways for me is the idea of distributed decision-making. You know, if we see ourselves as administrators, as the primary or sole decision makers, we're going to become bottlenecks for the work of the school, for the work of the organization. And certainly there are decisions that have to be made by us. There are decisions that have to be run by us. We need to be involved in a lot of things.
[19:16]
But that's not true for everything. And if we're clear on who is empowered to make certain decisions, we can actually remove ourselves from a lot of the decisions where we don't have the best input anyway, where it would be better for teachers to make those decisions because they're closer to the work. Now, that's only possible with a great deal of clarity and good communication and a high level of trust. So one of the steps that I want to encourage you to take as a leader is to guide your staff through the process of developing a decision-making handbook. And we have a new course, a new flagship course called High Performance Organizational Decision-Making in our Principal Center Professional Membership that will walk you through that. If you're interested in learning more about that, go to principalcenter.com slash join.
[20:01] Announcer:
Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.
