How To Raise Successful People: Simple Lessons for Radical Results

[00:01] SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high performance instructional leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome everyone to Principal Center Radio.

[00:15] SPEAKER_01:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to be joined today by Esther Wojcicki. Ms. Wojcicki is a leading American educator, journalist, and mother, a leader in blended learning and the integration of technology into education. She is the founder of the Media Arts Program at Palo Alto High School and has many alumni who are household names. And she's the vice chair of Creative Commons and was also instrumental in the launch of Google Teacher Academy. And we're here today to talk about her new book, How to Raise Successful People, Simple Lessons for Radical Results.

[00:50] Announcer:

And now our feature presentation.

[00:54] SPEAKER_01:

Esther, welcome to Principal Center Radio.

[00:56] SPEAKER_02:

Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm really honored to be here. Thank you.

[01:00] SPEAKER_01:

I'm thrilled that you've written this book on how to raise successful people because that is something that I aspire to do as a parent. And I know as educators, we share many of those same kind of parenting goals for our students in that we want our students, we want our children to grow up to be successful people. And I am not in a position in my life where I could have written the book on how to successfully raise children into successful adults. But you are. So I'm very honored to speak with you today. And I wonder if we could start for our listeners just by saying a little bit about your family, your daughters, and what they're up to these days.

[01:35] SPEAKER_02:

So my family consists of my three daughters, Susan, Janet, and Ann. They were all born within a four and a half to five year period, roughly. And so I was a really busy mom at that time. And what I did was I devoted my entire energy to being a mother, because if I didn't, it was a pretty difficult situation. You know, kids are always demanding. And what I tried to do, my number one goal that I set out to do, because back in those days, that was in the beginning of the 70s, the parenting book, the number one parenting book out there was Dr. Spock.

[02:11]

And Dr. Spock Basically was a how to take care of your child book when he got sick, you know, it was more health related. And the only thing that Dr. Spock said that was of value to me was actually, I think, in the first chapter in which he said, believe in yourself, trust your gut. And I was planning on doing that anyway, but it was always nice to have somebody here, an authority who said that was a good idea. And so what my goal was as a parent was to make my children as independent as possible, as early as possible.

[02:45]

It was sort of an experiment for me. I wanted to see what I could teach them and how early I could teach it to them. And so I wanted to see what skills could be taught. And one of the first things I tried to teach them to do was to swim. That sounds crazy, but the reason I did that is we had a pool in the backyard and I didn't want to have any accidents. And while it's fenced, you know, you read stories all the time about how the kid got into the fenced pool and then, you know, it was a tragedy that ensued.

[03:17]

So I wanted to make sure my kids knew how to swim. So that's basically what I spent a lot of time doing, teaching them how to swim and And it turns out that you can teach children how to swim when they're as young as 12 months old. Everybody else said you should teach them when they're five. But very little children, they don't have a fear of water. They're pretty easy to teach. They all love being in the water all the time.

[03:43]

So I taught them how to swim really early. And then since I was successful with that, I was a little emboldened. So I thought, well, let's see what else I can teach them to do. And I taught them a lot of household things early. They were fixing their own breakfast really early. People might laugh, but little kids can actually pour the cereal into the bowl.

[04:04]

And then if you put the milk into a small container, they can also do that. So I taught them, you know, that was a self-preservation thing that I taught them because I wanted to sleep in. And if they fixed their own breakfast and turned on the TV where they watched Sesame Street, then I got to sleep in a little bit longer. So I think that was my beginning attempt to empower my children. That went from teaching them to fix their own breakfast to, of course, reading. But they, thanks to Sesame Street, they learned all the letters.

[04:37]

And so teaching them, you know, just basic reading, I wasn't out to teach them how to, you know, really read a book. I was teaching them how to recognize signs when they were on the street, how to read the names of stores, how to figure out where they were going. It's kind of funny. I just sort of had this image, this view that I had to empower them. And I just wanted them to be like little grownups. And it was fun.

[05:04]

They felt very empowered. And turns out that was a really smart thing to do. Later on, you know, after I read some research, It turns out that kids feel like they can pretty much do anything. And that was one of my goals. So that's my family. Today, you know, I never in a million years anticipated where they would be today because I wasn't training them to be heads of major companies.

[05:30]

I was just training them to be a little independent. But today, Susan is the CEO of YouTube. And Janet is a professor of pediatrics at UCSF Medical School. And Anne is the co-founder and the CEO of 23andMe. So my independence goal was successfully achieved. I'm thrilled.

[05:51] SPEAKER_01:

So you said CEO of YouTube, professor of pediatric medicine and co-founder of 23andMe are the current gigs of your three daughters. So we've gone a long way from pouring cereal and milk and watching Sesame Street without waking up mom, which absolutely is a worthy goal in and of itself into that success as an adult. And, you know, I struggle with personally with this tension between. setting my children up for success, you know, teaching them. And, you know, what I think today has kind of become called helicopter parenting, right? Like, I find myself constantly needing to back off and say, okay, they can do this, you know, just because you needed to do this for them when they were younger doesn't mean you need to do it today.

[06:35]

And you had independence as a goal throughout their childhood.

[06:39] SPEAKER_02:

That was the number one. Yes, I wanted them to be independent.

[06:42] SPEAKER_01:

Did that push you to do anything that today we might consider a little bit unsafe? Or like if I'm a helicopter parent, what am I going to be uncomfortable with in that?

[06:51] SPEAKER_02:

Well, in today's world, things are different. People are afraid to let their kids walk on the street by themselves. I mean, even in my neighborhood, I live on the Stanford campus. I don't see children walking up and down the street by themselves. But back in those days, we were not so fearful. So my children walked to school by themselves when they were in kindergarten and they walked home.

[07:12]

And then they also arranged their own play dates. You know, we didn't have cell phones. So they would come home and say, Mom, I want to invite so-and-so over. Or they would actually bring the other person with them. And then I'd have to call the other mother up and say, guess what? Your kid's at my house.

[07:29]

So I don't think that that happens very much today because people are much more fearful. And I guess there was another thing. I let them ride their bikes. know around the neighborhood and i don't see little kids riding their bikes either so i think the world has changed and i think this fear has been promoted because of the internet you know we get information quickly we hear about something that happened in maine and here in california we're like oh my god it could happen here or you know florida or wherever and these kinds of things happen all the time until we extrapolate From that information that we just got and say, well, we better be really careful. So there's even some states have laws that prevent parents from letting their children walk by themselves, even at the age of eight or nine. So I think that we do have a very different culture at the moment.

[08:21] SPEAKER_01:

And I think I'm right at the age where kidnappings started to be national news phenomena. When I was a child, I remember very high profile kidnappings kind of striking fear into the heart of parents and that really influencing a generation or more of parents to really keep their kids close and hesitate to let them out. And then in more recent years, we've seen kind of a resurgence of what's being called free range parenting and letting kids go to the store, letting kids ride the subway. So as part of that independence, you were actually sending your kids out of the house, letting them go places, letting them do things that adults would do, right?

[08:58] SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I did do that. As I said, I think that the culture has changed. So what I would like to recommend for parents is that there are safe places where you can still do that and where you feel comfortable doing that. And one of my ideas of a safe place is the store. If you're going to the store...

[09:17]

you can give your child an opportunity to do some of the shopping. And why don't you go take your basket, or sometimes they even have little baskets, and see whether or not you can't get some of the supplies. Give them a little list, and then they can go there, and they can get some of the things that you're getting ready to buy. Also, when you go on vacation...

[09:38]

Or when the kids go to camp, that's an opportunity for kids to develop these independent skills. Depending on where you're going on vacation, it can be a safe place where you can let them walk around a little bit. I don't want to run against all these laws that have been created or passed in various states. I don't think the world is as dangerous as a lot of people think it is. As a matter of fact, there are books out there that indicate that the world is less dangerous now than it used to be 20 years ago. It's just that we weren't aware of it back then.

[10:10]

And now we're more aware. So that makes us more fearful. I mean, I know there's even parents that are worried when the kid is not in the same room in the house with them. You know, they're like, where are they? What are they doing? You know, you might want to create a safe house that enables kids to have some independence in the house.

[10:26]

They don't have to supervise all the time. And then these helicopter parents, what you were asking about is, of course a parent can do something faster. You know, they're more skilled. But you need to give your child an opportunity to do it, even though it's not going to look perfect right away. And that could be simple household things. Or it can actually be, you know, arts and crafts projects or taking care of the dog or cat.

[10:51]

Or, you know, maybe the dog will starve for a day. But, you know, you need to teach your kid how to take care of a pet or brush the pet or whatever. You have to give them some responsibility that basically has a consequence. You know, setting the table. You know, if there's no plates on the table, you can't eat. And so those are the kinds of things that I think can still be done.

[11:15]

And with the helicopter parent, I think the main thing that they're concerned about is school. And, you know, is my child going to be an A student? And if not, you know, let me hire a tutor or let me tutor them myself or let me actually even do the work for them myself, which is the worst. So I think we need to discuss that. with these parents, what the long-term consequences are of being a helicopter parent.

[11:42] SPEAKER_01:

Well, and you have a chapter toward the middle of your book called Don't Do Anything for Your Children That They Can Do for Themselves. And I think that kind of gets at it right there. That encapsulates it.

[11:53] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I mean, Susan was 18 months old and she was folding diapers. You know, back in those days, we used to have cloth diapers and they had to be folded. And I'll tell you, an 18-month-old can learn to fold diapers. I have personal experience with that. And so your expectations really determine what your kids can do.

[12:12]

And so my expectations were pretty high. I didn't have a nanny. I didn't have a cook. I didn't have any help. And so, you know, I figured, yeah, my kid can help me. Why not?

[12:23]

And she did. And she was very proud of it. And she liked doing it. I think you don't want to project onto your child some of the things that you personally don't like.

[12:32] SPEAKER_01:

And when you said that about expectations, that reminded me that we should mention that you are a teacher. Tell us about your teaching, what you teach, and how that has kind of interacted with your parenting insights.

[12:43] SPEAKER_02:

Well, I've been a teacher for 36 years. Next year is my 37th year. Hard to believe. My expectations for my students have always been really high. and I've taught English. I taught English 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, all the different English classes.

[12:59]

I taught journalism, social studies. I have a general secondary in California. They don't give those anymore. I've actually also taught math, algebra, first and second year of algebra. And what I have realized is that your expectations for your students, they don't have to be stated all the time, but they can be reminded. Your students will rise to those expectations.

[13:23]

And my expectations, for example, my English classes and journalism classes, were that, you know, you can do a good job writing this essay. And you can do a good job understanding what the book's about. And we can talk about it. I can teach you how to go online and find background about it. And then I think the biggest change I made in my teaching of English language and essays was that the kids always revise. They didn't get a grade until the grade was at least a B, if not higher, an A.

[13:56]

So the revision is part of the whole process. And the journalism program is like that as well. Part of the reason that the stories are so professional is because the kids revise sometimes up to 10 times. And I don't read all those stories. They peer edit. So I have a co-teacher who might read some of the stories to start.

[14:19]

And then we do it online, actually. It makes it easier because you can see right away what they're doing. But then we can give immediate feedback. It's like, oh, you're going in the wrong direction. Oh, you haven't asked the right questions. You might want to go back and ask more questions.

[14:32]

Or on an essay, the same thing. You can say, oh, you know, the first paragraph, you're supposed to have your main point. Uh-oh, some of those are missing. You need to go back and think about that before you continue with the essay. And then when you put them together in groups or whether they get to pick their own partner, it's interesting because kids who may not be able to be the best writers themselves are able to be really good critics. And they can figure out what's the matter.

[15:00]

And as long as everybody knows that you're not criticizing the person, that you're trying to help them be a better writer, nobody gets offended. That's the way that I've done it in English. I've done it, like I said, in journalism. I've done it in social studies and even in math. I know this sounds like it's crazy, but I have the kids take tests, And if they failed the test, I'd redo it. And they had to relearn the material because I was building.

[15:25]

And every week you're building on the previous week. And so if they don't understand what they learned last week, they're not going to understand what they're being taught this week. So they did a lot of revising. And the fact that they were able to redo the material, relearn the material, and retake the test motivated them as opposed to demotivating them. A lot of kids are demotivated in math because what they do is they just continue with the next week's work. And then they average grades.

[15:59]

And the kid can do really well by the end of the semester, which means they understand everything. But all the early grades are averaged with the later grades, which then discourages that student because you can end up with a B or a C even if you have turned into an A student. So I try to minimize the negative impact of grading.

[16:20] SPEAKER_01:

It's so interesting to hear you develop these approaches organically that as a profession, we have now identified as best practices and called things like standards-based grading or mastery learning. Or if you look at the Danielson framework for teaching, giving ownership to students, that is now recognized as exemplary practice and the best case scenario. So very interesting to see the profession kind of catching up with some of those and validating those approaches.

[16:48] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's great. I'm really happy that they're doing that. And I think more teachers should do that. The kids then they don't get discouraged. They're totally passionate about you know, rising to your expectations. It's a great method.

[17:02] SPEAKER_01:

In the book, you organize your recommendations under the headings of trust, respect, independence, collaboration, and kindness. And we've talked quite a bit about independence in terms of our own parenting, and you've talked quite a bit about collaboration in the classroom. But you said at the beginning that a lot of it starts with trust. And when you picked up Dr. Spock's book many years ago, one of the big things that struck you right off the bat was the message that you should trust yourself. How does that show up in the trust that we place in our children and in our students?

[17:37] SPEAKER_02:

If you just think about it for yourself, when someone trusts you to do something and you trust yourself, you have greater ability to be innovative because you're like, oh, they trust me, so I must be able to do that. So I think with my students and my children also, when you believe in them, they believe in themselves. And it's actually shocking to watch because I've had a lot of students who have entered my classes in the 10th grade who have had serious self-image problems, let's put it that way, and whose self-images have changed dramatically. And they have gone from being the kids that fooled around in class that were not able to do much of anything to being the leaders. I mean, I have one kid that started, he flunked out in the other school across town, Gunn High School, came to Palo Alto High School and had to repeat the ninth grade.

[18:32]

And he had zero self-esteem. And I can tell you, it's a long story, but he stayed with me for all four years, beginning journalism, advanced journalism, and he ended up going to Harvard. You know, it's what you, if you believe in those kids and you give them that opportunity to succeed, they will believe in themselves and then they'll want to do it. So that's what my philosophy has been in my classes all these years. And what I'd like to say is that You don't have the same sort of battles with kids when you have this philosophy. And you don't have to send them off to the administration all the time to be corrected for their poor behavior.

[19:14]

They actually will perform really well if you believe in them. It's hard to describe, but I'm sure in every school in this country, there are teachers that are operating with this system that I have. And if you go into their class and see... how it works, you'll see how the discipline problems are gone.

[19:34]

I don't really have discipline problems. The kids are on time. They are motivated. They know when to be quiet. And I'm not just talking about, okay, you have all the top kids in the school. 50% of my classes are children of immigrants or maybe even more than 50%.

[19:53]

And a lot of these kids, you know, they weren't outstanding in middle school. And they have just become more passionate about whatever it is that they're doing. And the fact that I believe in them has made a huge impact. Actually, I think James Franco, in my first book, which is called Moonshots in Education, he wrote the introduction to that book. He's the actor. And basically, he said that he believed in himself because I believed in him.

[20:26]

And I believed in his dreams. And, you know, James Franco was not an outstanding student to start. He was typical high school kid who was like one minute he's interested in this and next minute he's interested in that. But if you read the introduction to that book, to the first book, you'll see that he didn't really know what he wanted to be. But I trusted him and believed in him. And that's where that part of that word trick comes from.

[20:53]

Trust. Trust and respect. I think trust is the number one, the most important thing.

[20:59] SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think that's a good segue into respect, because you mentioned your former student, James Franco, being kind of a typical high school student, not really knowing what he was interested in, you know, trying different things, having shifting interests. And I think for a lot of us, especially who really are invested in our children being successful, We think we have figured that out for them, and I'm getting the impression that that is not the right approach to figure out for students what they should do to be successful and what they should be interested in. So talk to us about respect. What does it mean to respect your child as an independent person?

[21:38] SPEAKER_02:

So I think the main thing it means is letting them make the big decisions, even if you think that those decisions... might not be right. So for example, you know, my daughter, Susan, she majored in French and English history and lit. And so trust me, you can't get a job with that kind of major.

[21:59]

But then, you know, after spent all that money on her education, the question is, so now what? And when she came home here, I was like, well, what do you want to do now? I mean, I did not change, did not interfere with that. I did not interfere with what she decided to do, which is like she went over to Stanford and she looked for a job with doing something with history. And I was like, okay. And she found a job.

[22:27]

She was supposed to correct or make sure that historical facts were correct. And it turns out that she did the job too quickly. They thought it would take several months. She did it in two weeks. And then they said, well, what else can you do? And she's like, well, I don't know, nothing, I guess.

[22:47]

So they said, if you can teach yourself the program, we can hire you. And so that's what she did. She went back to the bookstore, bought herself some books on programming and taught herself the program and got hired. But I didn't do anything, right? I just sat there and said, I think you probably should think about what you want to do now that you majored in French and English history and left. So I think that's true for a lot of kids.

[23:13]

You know, you want to let them find their path. Parents can be a little too overbearing and can force kids into careers that they really don't want to be in. And then they become depressed and have problems later on in life. I think you want to provide some guidance, but you don't want to make it so that if they don't follow your guidance, that then they feel really bad about themselves. And you don't want to interfere in that way. So, for example, Anne was, she's very gifted musically, but she did not go into music, but she could have.

[23:49]

And so, you know, she's head of 23andMe instead. So that was her choice. That was what she wanted to do. And As I said, you have to respect your children and what they want to be in life. I know it's hard for parents, but I'll tell you, they end up being much happier people.

[24:08] SPEAKER_01:

Reading the Wikipedia entries for each of your daughters, it's interesting to see how many different interests are mentioned from figure skating to ice hockey to music, as you said, and then ultimately what they ended up doing as careers. One of my takeaways from that is that we can't write the book for each of our children, right? They are the authors of their own lives and freeing for me to hear, you know, my children are young, you know, I feel that pressure to kind of figure things out for them, but it's so, I guess, liberating to hear this message of, you know, allow your children to try things, allow them to become their own person and choose their own path. But Esther, beyond that willingness to let go and, you know, let our children, let our students choose their own path and become their own people, You know, one of the things that I really strive for, but don't live up to my own expectations on is teaching and modeling kindness, because, you know, any of us can want our children to be successful.

[25:07]

Any of us can want our daughters to become CEOs of major corporations. But we also want our children to grow up to be the kind of people who will do a good job running the world if they get to. Right. We want our children to. to grow up to be kind people. So in your framework of trust, respect, independence, collaboration, and kindness, I think kindness is a great place to land.

[25:32]

How did you teach kindness as a parent? What do you think we need to do as educators to inculcate kindness in our children?

[25:39] SPEAKER_02:

Well, I think the first thing you have to do as a parent is model kindness yourself. Because children follow what you do, not what you say. And so you need to be kind to other people. You need to show kindness pretty much in your interactions with your children and your interactions with their friends and your interactions with their parents and family members and so forth. So kindness and compassion are really fundamental to everything. And in school, for example, with my students, they were typical students.

[26:13]

So they weren't perfect. And they did things that I wish they wouldn't have done. But I actually never did send them to the office. What I did is whenever they did something that I thought was dramatically bad enough, their punishment was they had to stay after school with me. And then they had to write about it. And they had to sit there literally with me.

[26:34]

I didn't like, okay, you can write about it at home. No, you're writing about it right now, right here with me. And we're talking about what it is that you did. You know, that works miracles. It's unbelievable. I don't know why more teachers don't do it.

[26:49]

Because then you form a relationship with that child. And, you know, people will say, oh, you were dealing with really easy kids. You know, my first teaching assignment was at Richmond High School, Richmond, California. This is not an easy school. Then I went from there to San Leandro. That was not an easy school either.

[27:09]

And so, I mean, it works with all kids. Everybody wants to be respected and they all want to be treated with kindness. And so if you can tie into those two needs, they're going to do pretty much anything that you want. Because when they realize you're really on their side, because I was on their side, I wanted them to learn. I wasn't there, you know, trying to do something else. I wanted them to learn whatever it was I was teaching, math or science or social studies or whatever.

[27:39]

And I wanted them to do the best they could be. And so I forgave a lot of stuff that they were doing in hopes that they would change the way they were behaving. Sometimes it was tough, I can tell you. I'm not saying it was easy because I had one class where I volunteered for this class, the lowest performing English class in the school. So that's 2,000 students, and these are the lowest performing 20. And it was tough, but, you know, it was interesting.

[28:09]

It worked. This method worked even with them. So I know it takes a little bit more time, but in the long term, it doesn't take more time because then they perform.

[28:19] SPEAKER_01:

It seems like it comes down to relationships. We come up with programmatic names for things. We call something a trauma-informed practice or a restorative practice, having your students write to you about what happened in class rather than send them to the office. It just has struck me over and over again in our conversation how some of the things that we are finally identifying as effective Are the things that you have been doing this entire time without the label necessarily to reach your students and to set them up for success?

[28:51] SPEAKER_02:

I didn't read any of the research. You know, I only read it afterwards, actually, when I was writing this book. And later on, I realized that there was a lot of research out there that supported what I was doing. But what I was doing was all based on my gut reaction, how I would want to be treated. you know, if I were a student. And so that's what I was doing with my students.

[29:13]

And what's interesting is the kindness part lasts forever. I'm still in touch with students. Some of them are like, I'm not kidding, 40 years old, and they still stay in touch. So I think it's important for teachers to realize that those kids are going to grow up and what you're teaching them is going to last for a lifetime. And they are going to appreciate what you've done for them if you're kind.

[29:38] SPEAKER_01:

You know, we have all these motivational sayings for the impact that we have on students and then the impact that they have on the world, hopefully in some part as a result of our work with them. How great to hear that and to see your students coming back decades later to tell you what they're up to.

[29:52] SPEAKER_02:

You know, it makes you feel like you have one big, huge family. It's really amazing. And so I guess what I'd just recommend for all teachers is to treat kids with kindness. And they'll be surprised at how effective that is in helping those kids reach whatever goals they have for them in that class. And the kids will never forget it.

[30:15] SPEAKER_01:

so what keeps you coming back you know and working with every new class of students and what do you hope for them you know when when you have a new group of students come in the door for the first time a group of students who doesn't know you what's on your agenda for that relationship and and what do you hope to happen as a result of next year's work the reason i still stay is because i love being with students and having a positive impact on their lives they're so appreciative teenagers are i mean i think they're great and so i am there because

[30:44] SPEAKER_02:

I want them to know that there's somebody in the school. I don't, there must be other people as well, but at least me that has their back that they can rely on that. I care about them as human beings, not just as students of journalism or English. I write recommendations for them. I help them. I mean, even years later, get jobs.

[31:06]

You know, I do a lot of different things that are just because I like them as human beings. And, I find all kids, literally all kids, really a pleasure to be with. And some of them, like I said, are a little more challenging, but they're usually super creative. It's fun for me to get to know them and to talk to them. So that's what keeps me coming back. And I know that at some point you have to retire, but every year I say, oh my God, am I going to retire this year?

[31:39]

And then I think, oh, not yet. And it's been going on for years because now I tell my daughters, well, I'm thinking about retiring and they all laugh. They're like, well, we'll see when it finally happens because they don't believe me. No, they're like, okay, mom, we know that you're probably saying it, but you won't do it. And it's true, because why would I want to leave all these wonderful kids? And also, I have a fantastic co-teacher now, Rod Satterwhite, and he's amazing.

[32:10]

He's a wonderful partner. And so that's why I'm there. I hope that all teachers everywhere can have the same positive experience that I have, and I think if you stop trying to teach to the test, sorry to say that, but if you stop being so worried about the test, I think that then if you worry more about the student as a human being, I think you'll have a better time as a teacher and a better experience, and your students will also have a better experience being students in your class. I know it's hard to do and everybody's worried about the test, but my latest philosophy is maybe you can just take 20% of the class time to do things where you get to interact with the kids and the other 80% of the time you can teach traditionally the way I've always done it.

[33:02]

But if you could just make part of the class exciting and give kids an opportunity to work on projects that they care about within your subject matter, I think it'll make a big difference.

[33:39]

My class is more than 20% time doing that. 50% is more like it.

[33:47]

Yeah, I let them, so they work on, my whole class is journalism and they come up with the entire project themselves. I just provide the framework. I don't do it for them. I don't come up with the story ideas. I don't write the stories. I don't do the interviews.

[34:05]

All I'm doing is providing the scaffolding for the whole class. But when I was in English, teaching an English class where I had a defined number of books the kids had to read and a defined curriculum, I still gave them more than 20% of the time to work on things that they wanted to work on.

[34:25] SPEAKER_01:

Well, Esther Wojcicki, it has been a pleasure to speak with you and an honor. The book is How to Raise Successful People, Simple Lessons for Radical Results. Do check it out. And thank you so much.

[34:38] SPEAKER_02:

A pleasure. Thank you for including me in this podcast. And I look forward to any other questions people might have. I'd be happy to respond.

[34:47] Announcer:

Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.