The Coach Approach to School Leadership: Leading Teachers to Higher Levels of Effectiveness

[00:01] SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high performance instructional leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome everyone to Principal Center Radio.

[00:15] SPEAKER_01:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to be joined today by my three friends, Jessica Johnson, Shira Leibovitz, and Kathy Perrette, authors of The Coach Approach to School Leadership, Leading Teachers to Higher Levels of Effectiveness.

[00:31] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:33] SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio.

[00:35] SPEAKER_02:

Thank you. Thanks for having us.

[00:36] SPEAKER_01:

Wow, I am excited about today because this day has been many years in the making. We've known each other for many years through Twitter and education conferences and things like that. And over the years, you have built a relationship through the internet and through some face-to-face events and have gotten together to write this book on the coach approach to school leadership, largely as an outgrowth of your work. on Twitter in the Educoach chat and through some related things that we've talked about over the years. I wonder if you could give us a little bit of the back story as to where this book came from and how you three, the dream team, came together to write this book.

[01:16] SPEAKER_02:

Well, people say that one tweet can change your life and really that's what it boils down to was back in about 2011, I put out a tweet that just wondered if people knew if there was a chat for coaches. And if not, if somebody wanted to start one. And these two ladies jumped within, I think, minutes of each other. And so our friendship grew. Our love of coaching grew. We know we have unique differences and the similarity of the love of coaching.

[01:50]

And so through a lot of collaboration, this topic kind of bubbled to the top. And we kind of go with the quote that if there's a book that you want to read that hasn't been written and you can't find it, you need to write it. So that's what we did is we set off on a.

[02:10] SPEAKER_01:

virtual mission to write the coach approach yeah and if i can jump in there kathy your background is as an instructional coach you currently serve as an instructional coach and consultant and and you bring that perspective through your your full-time work but that's not the case for for the rest of our team here yeah oh this is where i get really excited about how diverse we are

[02:32] SPEAKER_02:

So I'm Jessica. I'm a principal. I've been a principal for nine years. I was an assistant principal for that. Before that, I was an instructional coach. And Shira, Shira can tell you where she is in education, but she's also a rabbi.

[02:44]

So I like to say that here you go right here, a rabbi, a coach, and a principal walked into a bar and then wrote a book. Just kidding. We've never been in a bar together. We go to EduCoach every week and It just speaks to how diverse we all are with public school, private school, wide variety.

[03:05] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And Jessica, you are and have been for the last couple of years an elementary principal. Is that right?

[03:10] SPEAKER_02:

It's my ninth year. I'm getting like grandma in administrative terms.

[03:15] SPEAKER_01:

And Shira, I understand since we first met, you've moved into a new role. Is that correct?

[03:19] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it is. So, you know, if Jessica's grandma, I'm a great, great grandma. I've been leading independent schools for 20 years. And I am a rabbi trained. I had been leading Jewish day schools. And most recently I left and I have founded with a really awesome team, a new project-based learning school planned to be a network of schools.

[03:41]

Our first school is in Tribeca in Manhattan. So this has been an exciting new adventure. And bringing coach approach to reimagining education has been really, really wonderful. Also, just to add to what Kathy and Jessica said, we only met each other last month. We've been working together for six years. We had never been in the same place at the same time.

[04:06]

until presenting at the last ASCD conference our book. So that was really thrilling to finally meet. And it really speaks to the power of a community that transcends geography now and is really based on shared vision and ideals.

[04:23] SPEAKER_01:

So again, the book we're here to talk about today is The Coach Approach to School Leadership, Leading Teachers to Higher Levels of Effectiveness, published by ASCD. And in fact, it is the May 2017 member book for ASCD that'll be sent to, I don't know, tens of thousands of ASCD members around the world. I wonder if we could just kind of give an overview of the philosophy or the perspective that you take in the coach approach. Obviously, we're talking about a coaching mindset for principals, for school leaders, who might traditionally be more expected to wear an evaluator hat. And you've got the actual coach hat on the cover of the book. But give us a little more insight into the coaching perspective for school leaders.

[05:08] SPEAKER_02:

Yes. So the notion is, is that leadership exists, school leadership exists on a continuum from using sports analogies, each end of the spectrum, kind of silent judge that you would see in a gymnastics match or a boxing match who doesn't even speak, just puts up a number and their word is the results. To the other end of the spectrum where you might have a team captain who's really one among everybody and leads by influence and is collegial and collaborative. And then the middle of that continuum, you have the coach who does have a different position than others on the team. And yet is really their position is not that of an evaluator. It's somebody who's fully invested in the success of everybody else.

[05:59]

And their job is to help everybody else be their best. So the notion of the book is that principals spend a huge amount of time evaluating. And sadly, 75% of teachers say that their evaluations do nothing to change their practice. So we're spending a huge amount of energy, in some cases, harming the school culture in the process, at best doing almost nothing. So how can we shift that time in classrooms and with teachers to be really productive and to help teachers and achieve their own goals and to become the professionals that they're aspiring to be. You know, I'd like to share kind of my personal journey of how I came to become passionate about this.

[06:41]

When I left the classroom, I became an instructional coach for a year and I moved into administration and took on a role as an assistant principal at a school that was in its fifth year of being deemed as failing by the state. And it was our last year to turn it around or they were going to be taken over. And I had the opportunity to work with a principal who was known in the area in downtown Phoenix, Arizona, so very urban area. He was known for coming in and like sort of cleaning up house in a school, making significant changes and turning it around. And we did a lot of work in a very short amount of time to turn that school around. And I was only with that school for a year.

[07:21]

And some significant changes that made progress in that school. And I left and came across the country to my little heaven here in Wisconsin. And a new leadership team came into that school. And when I came to where I'm at now in my position, this rural school, I kind of took that mentality with me of, oh, I'm going to turn this around. I've had courageous conversations. I've got the motivation to make changes.

[07:50]

And I realized early on in my school that I was kind of coming off as a steamroller. And fortunately, I realized it soon and realized, okay, I just bought a house. I plan to have my children go through this school. If I want to stay here for a long time, I can't be a turnaround principal. I can't steamroll through this school. I need to figure out how to make change that's going to be long-term change.

[08:14]

Because that turnaround principal, he didn't stay there. Somebody else came in. for the long haul. And so I went back to my coaching role. I loved that coaching role. You can make great changes with coaches to help improve instruction and learning.

[08:28]

So that's where my conversations with Shira and Kathy became so passionate because I wanted to figure out how can I wear that coach's hat as a principal when you're responsible for evaluating and everything else as well. Yeah. And we surveyed teachers and coaches early on to see just kind of what their thoughts, you know, is their principal an evaluator? Is their principal in their room a lot? Is their principal providing them with the means to grow and empower their students? And so many of the teachers wrote back that they really did want somebody who helped guide them.

[09:05]

And sometimes when you talk to principals, you hear the story that they don't think that's the case. So they walk around sometimes with the perception of, The teachers just want their freedom. But really, the teachers deep down want to grow. They want to empower their students. They want solid feedback. They want to learn new things.

[09:29]

And so wearing that coaching hat, I think, really has the power to transform a school.

[09:36] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I think it really speaks to the need for differentiation and the need for just situational awareness and flexibility, because I think as a profession, we tend to kind of idolize that turnaround principle, right? Like that turnaround principle surely is the best kind of principle, right? But Jessica, if I hear what you're saying, there's a time and a place for that turnaround style of leadership, but that's not the situation that every school is in. And even if you are in that kind of situation, that's not necessarily the best way to work with everyone there. And I've been having a lot of conversations with people lately around differentiating feedback for teachers who are at different places in their careers. Because I think one of the things that really rubs teachers the wrong way is is when they have a very deeply internalized locus of control and sense of professionalism and ability to reflect on their practice and a knowledge base.

[10:28]

And if we as principals come in and kind of, as you said, steamroll their practice, their growth, and just kind of tell them what to do and don't take that coaching approach, we miss out on a lot of the potential for growth and we kind of spoil the relationships that we could have. And I'm grateful that as a principal, I got to work with some really fabulous teachers. I was not in a turnaround school. I was in a school that was very strong, had a veteran teaching staff that was just terrific. And it was a good thing for me because I didn't have the expertise in kindergarten and in fifth grade and in literacy and in all the different subjects that we supervise as leaders. Often we don't have the most expertise, and I think that's a good thing if we know how to work with teachers who have more expertise than us as well as differentiate that for people who do need our guidance.

[11:21] SPEAKER_02:

And actually, what's great about not having the expertise in all the different, you know, subject areas or, you know, every principal has their area of expertise, but stepping out into it for some principals, that can be very scary. And they don't want to go into classrooms because they feel like, well, I can't give, you know, the kindergarten teacher feedback. I've never taught kindergarten or I haven't taught science. I can't give feedback. But that's actually I feel like it makes it easier for coaching. Because good coaches just ask questions and you get the teachers talking and reflecting and you don't have to be an expert in the content.

[11:55]

And, you know, even when it comes to evaluation, and we're not talking about evaluation, but there's like one standard that applies to their content. Everything else, as you know, as a coach, you can have expertise and give feedback in and ask good questions to guide the teacher forward. in what goal they want to be working on to improve instructional learning in their classroom. I think that's something that we've delved into in our conversations in the book and conversations with educators is how hard real growth is because it means going to a place of vulnerability. It means owning what you want to be that you're not yet. And so creating an environment and a culture where you can go to those places in a way that's both protected and celebrated takes an incredible amount of investment in culture building and doesn't happen quickly and happens over a timeline in bits and pieces until you step back and say, there is progress here.

[13:03]

So a piece of the coach approach, a large piece of it is, helping teachers to own their own learning, just like we talk about student-centered learning and having students own their own learning, but having teachers determine where it is that they want to grow in a way that's helpful to them and to come up with a plan that's helpful to them and to come up with exciting, ambitious goals that they can move towards over time.

[13:32] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And again, I feel like there's there's such a norm in our profession that that principals are the ones who should make that decision. Right. Of how good a job is this teacher doing and what do they need to do next and what directions do they need to follow in order to get better? But I think if we if we understand teaching as a profession. And if we understand what it's like to be in that position of being a veteran teacher and taking responsibility for your learning, that coaching role that we can play as principals can be enormously valuable.

[14:04]

Or if we waste that opportunity, it can be very detrimental and can be really a factor that drives away good teachers. If we try to control and dictate to professional teachers how they you know, how they need to think about their practice. I've heard it said that people get hired by organizations, but they quit bosses. Like people don't quit the organization they work for. They quit working for the boss that they're working for. And I think, you know, if you work for a principal who has that coach approach, that's a much better person to work for than someone who has the content expertise, but is just a steamroller.

[14:43] SPEAKER_02:

We talk about why coach approach is important. We also talk about how do you move forward in creating a coach approach style that's uniquely yours. So there are a number of challenges in that process. The first being just how do you manage to get out of your office? Because there are so many demands keeping you there. A coach I worked with once had said to me that the system will conspire to keep you in your office.

[15:14]

That's what the system is designed to do. So take control of your own calendar and make it a priority to get out into the classroom. So that's one piece of the challenge for principals. And it's significant. And then principals also wonder once they make the time and they're in classrooms and they want to coach, what do they do? So figuring that out for oneself with one's teachers is really key.

[15:43]

A way that has worked for us in the past that we've talked about a lot is, as Jessica mentioned, asking questions. So to go into a classroom and to work really hard, and it takes a period of time, it did for us, in transforming ourselves from being judgmental, even judgmental in a positive way of saying, that's awesome, I love that. Definitely complimenting and appreciation has its place. But we believe very much separate from feedback. So give the appreciation, give the praise, give the compliments. And at a separate time and place, give the feedback, which is much more nonjudgmental questions and prompts.

[16:19]

This is something I noticed. This is something I wonder about. What are the ways that you're making those decisions? How is that working for you? What are things you might like to shift? And handing those questions and prompts to the teacher for the teacher to own.

[16:34]

And then meeting with the teacher a number of times of the year with the teacher to really set the agenda of which of those questions or none of them, something entirely different that the teacher wants to sink her or his teeth into in order to grapple with in this process of professional growth.

[16:50] SPEAKER_01:

So one of the topics that I think you touch on very effectively in the coach approach is the idea of feedback. You know, we've been conditioned to believe that feedback is our primary goal in visiting classrooms. And if we're to put on that coaching hat and step out of the role of simply telling teachers what they're doing well and what they're doing poorly and what they should do differently and actually switch into giving feedback, we realize that feedback is another animal entirely compared to kind of our traditional approach definition of that. In your understanding, what is feedback and what is feedback not?

[17:26] SPEAKER_02:

We turn to Grant Wiggins on this, who very clearly talks about what feedback is not. It's not evaluation. It's not advice. It's not praise. What it is, as he defines it and we embraced, is evidence on progress toward a goal. So in order to give feedback, you need to have a goal.

[17:46]

It can't be everything in teaching and pedagogy and curriculum. So that means that we work with teachers to determine what are teachers' goals. And it's been really important to the three of us that those goals be chosen by teachers, not by the principal. There may be other school-wide goals, but the teachers have goals. And then coming in and giving feedback is, non-judgmental observations about where the teacher is and where the class is in relationship to that goal. So how quickly is a teacher gone?

[18:18]

And we view successful feedback and successful growth not only in reaching a goal. Some goals are so ambitious and take so many twists and turns along the way that not meeting the goal and realizing why is huge progress in and of itself. And that's important to us. So it's not, we don't want teachers to feel we have to set a goal so that we could check off that we achieved the goal, but we want to grow and we'll set some benchmarks along the way, which are our goals along the way to see how we grow. We've also had examples of teachers who set a goal in August and then come in and see that this particular class of kids so needs something else that it's being responsive to the kids to set that goal aside and choose something else. So there is no feedback without being really clear and really reflective about what your goals are and whether the goals are the right goals for the time for yourself as a teacher, as a professional, and for the particular students with whom you're working.

[19:20]

And when it comes to giving feedback to teachers, I think one thing that I know I've tried everything over the years, and we've talked about this, of you know, which form is it or should it be checkboxes or should it, you know, what items should be on this in terms of giving feedback. And I think we've all completely and in the book just agreed on its narrative feedback because then it can be specific to the teacher's goal. And I know that in a system, it is great to gather data in terms of, you know, a checkbox system. But It just doesn't work in terms of being able to give teachers feedback on what their goal is because the checkboxes don't all apply. And your best teachers, if you're checking off boxes of things that you see in the classroom,

[20:10]

your best teachers are going to look at that and get nothing out of it to begin with. Or they're going to see things that you didn't check off and think, well, but I do, you know, if you would have been in here at that time, I do that. I do collaborative grouping. You just weren't in when we're doing that. And so it does nothing for anybody in the system at all. You know, even when you're looking at groups of teachers and, you know, Justin, you brought up earlier about, you know, differentiating for each teacher group.

[20:37]

based on either their years of experience or their expertise or whatever. But even just that simple question with teachers individually, how best do you receive feedback? What type of feedback would you like to be getting from me and in what type of form? In one place in the book, we just described a tool that I used with – teachers in the past, and it was more of a checklist form. But what we did was we created it together as a staff. And the staff came up with what are the key look-fors and what would be important to have that would make a difference.

[21:19]

And then the next layer of that is that the teachers actually went out and tried using that form themselves to gain feedback from each other prior to the principal using it. So that the teachers had a vested interest in developing the types of feedback. So often you get the district mandated form of the Merzano list of things to look for or whatever they are. And it's not teacher invested. So building things together, coming together as a staff and looking at what's going to make the most difference for us and for our kids when it comes to to the notion of feedback or just about anything in the coach approach. A piece that I still find challenging is separating the compliments and the appreciation from the feedback because being in a true non-judgmental space feels at times to me not so

[22:19]

humane. So the way that I got around it was in these narrative feedbacks to begin with a compliment and then kind of have a line underneath it and then to start the feedback so that the compliment happens, but it's separated from the feedback because compliment in itself is judgmental. And I think that it is important for every principal to figure out what way works for them to be able to show appreciation and respect for people who are letting you into their classroom, which is you teach with your whole being and who you are and you reveal so much when someone's observing you teach, to be able to show humbly and with gratitude and respect, show appreciation for that and show genuine respect for the good things that are happening. There are good things happening all the time in every classroom. And then still to be able to have feedback that is positive

[23:12]

really non-judgmental as well. Okay. So something on feedback that actually is not in our book, but I was just at a workshop with Peter DeWitt and he was referencing the book, Thanks for the Feedback. And this has such a place in this discussion right now as being aware of what our triggers are when receiving feedback. And this is something that I want to share with my staff because it just is so eye-opening. And the three triggers are your truth trigger, relationship trigger and your identity trigger.

[23:43]

So if it's a truth trigger, you might be upset about what the substance is of the feedback that you're receiving. If it's the relationship trigger, you might be tripped up by the particular person giving you the feedback. And so then you might see that person as having no credibility. And then your identity trigger, it may be what you're hearing is hurting, you know, the identity that you have for yourselves. And I think that has such a huge role in terms of as we think of how we receive feedback And I haven't figured out when I'm going to share this with my staff, but I want us to all be aware of that in terms of how we receive feedback from each other and also thinking of our students and how we're giving students feedback and just to help us be aware when we're giving or receiving feedback. What are our triggers?

[24:30]

Another piece on feedback that I think back to a lot of my coaching work And there was a time when we actually would go into classrooms but not provide any feedback if we were watching a certain lesson or something. And the notion was that if the teacher spent a good amount of time, let's say, on the opening of the lesson and just really developed that well, but I, as an observer, comment on the closure of then the teacher's like, well, I just spent all that time creating the opening and you didn't even notice it. So flipping the feedback to back in the coaching world, a lot of times we'll ask teachers, then what do you want me to watch for?

[25:21]

So simply when a teacher has goal XYZ, asking, well, what is it? As I come into your classroom, what do you want me to look for? What type of information do you want me to collect for you? So that actually it's the information collected that's the feedback and not, well, I like this and this needs tweaking or something. It's what the teachers want to learn about themselves.

[25:50] SPEAKER_01:

And the more I thought about feedback in terms of kind of a, you know, the way a musician gets feedback from the monitor that they have on stage with them, you know, the audio monitor, you know, it occurred to me that feedback really begins and ends with the teacher, right? The musician is getting feedback through the monitor about their own performance and they're the one listening to it, right? And they're the one tuning into it and making adjustments. You know, it's not Simon Cowell that's coming out of that speaker, right? on the stage, right? It's your own performance coming back to you.

[26:22]

And what really registered with me as I was reading your book and as I was doing some other reading in preparation for one of our recent webinars is that feedback really has to raise the teacher's level of awareness. or else it's just kind of a waste of time for everyone. If you tell a teacher, good job on X, Y, Z, not only is that judgmental to say good job, but it's also not new information in a lot of cases. If the teacher knows that they did a good job on something and really wasn't looking for feedback on that, then it's not helping them in any way. So one of the things that I've been thinking about lately is how can we make sure that we're making this a useful process for teachers? And if we can't, in terms of the actual content of the feedback, let's just make it a pleasant experience for everybody involved by being nice about it.

[27:11]

You know, if I don't actually have anything constructive to say, or if I don't have a constructive criticism or a suggestion for how to make your lesson better, why don't I just say, thanks for letting me come in today and maybe ask some good questions, but not force myself to be in that advice giving or expert role. And I think that's something I appreciate so much about your book.

[27:31] SPEAKER_02:

So it's funny that you say Simon Cowell. I don't think we referenced him in the book. There are times when you're in a classroom and you just wish you could be Simon Cowell and have the filter come off and say what you're really thinking. And we actually have a piece that started in this where Shira and I were both in classrooms. And I think we emailed each other within a couple of minutes of each other. And I, Shira, you remember it so clearly, but I think I was in a classroom where I was like, I...

[27:59]

I am bored to tears. I don't know how to give this teacher feedback. Like, I want to fall asleep. This is awful. How do I say this? And I, you know, so I emailed Shira and she was in a similar situation as well in a classroom.

[28:13]

And it was funny that it both happened. And we kind of turn it into a game of, you know, how do you turn this into coaching feedback when you want to be Simon Cowell? And that's obviously not helpful for the relationship or moving the teacher forward or anything at all. And so we turned it into and you'll find this is in the feedback chapter, a chart on what you would like to say and then what you could say with a coaching mindset instead, which would be much more recommended than to say, oh, dog, that did that. You just killed that lesson. You know, you can't say that.

[28:48] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that exercise of having kind of the, you know, the first column, rough draft, what you're really thinking, and then the kind of professional translation. And, you know, and sometimes just asking the question can save you that trouble. Like I had, I've probably told this story many times, but I had a teacher who was a great teacher, and we had a formal observation set up. It was toward the end of the year, you know, we were getting up on the final evaluation deadline. And the lesson just kind of tanked.

[29:15]

I mean, the kids were not getting the directions. The directions were not super clear. And afterward, I sat down and said, you know, how did you feel like it went today? You know, the kind of classic weasel question at the beginning of every post-conference. How'd you feel like it went? And the teacher just said, you know, Justin, honestly, I think that was terrible.

[29:33]

I'm really embarrassed. It did not go better. I'm really sorry. And then she went on to tell me that her dog had died the night before and she just was not, you know, not particularly with it that day. And we rescheduled and I said, no problem at all. I totally understand.

[29:46]

Tell me about your dog. You know, that that needed to be the the issue that we talked about in the moment, because that was that was what was on her mind and that was what was going on in her life. And I just was was so grateful that that she had shared that and that it had gone that way, because I think what would that have done to our relationship? if I had kept it purely about how terrible the lesson was.

[30:10] SPEAKER_02:

And that's where if a principal is only in the classroom when they have to for the scheduled observations, that's where a coach approach makes a huge difference. Because if you're only in the classroom for the dog and pony show, you don't know what normal is. But if you're in classrooms a lot, you're going to see that and be like, oh, I wonder if everything's OK. Or something's different. And you know that. Teachers appreciate that.

[30:36]

Yeah. I also think that the way that we think of student grading, we think of teacher feedback. And it takes effort to break that cycle. So it's become more clear to me in my new position where we don't give grades, kids work to publish in portfolios and to do public exhibitions. So the kids have feedback sessions with each other all the time. And what I've noticed that I then translate back to the coach approach is kids crave feedback because your goal is to get the work ready to publish.

[31:14]

And there's no criticism inherent in what's being said. It's this is a great as whatever iteration you're in. Now what's the next step to make it better? And when you really embrace that mindset of this is a long process to get a work ready to publish, the feedback is just help along the way. And I see it with my students who will get aggravated with each other if they don't get feedback because they want the peer support to get their work ready to publish. And I think that as much as we could shift that mindset with teachers is we're in this together to make our work better and better.

[31:51]

then the feedback doesn't feel like an evaluation, however you frame it. It feels like true investment in a higher quality product. I think, you know, we have a whole chapter on time. And Shira touched on this about how, you know, if you can work on becoming better at leading with a coaching hat, but you won't be able to do it if you can't get out of your office. And I just have to, you know, give thanks to you for all the work that you do at the Principal Center. because you're usually the first place that I tell principals, you know, if they're struggling, I say, you have to, you know, you have to go learn from the principal center because you're like the David Allen of the principal world in terms of being able to get things done.

[32:33]

And so we've learned a lot from you on how to balance our schedules, balance our emails, the piles of paper on our desk, you know, everything to be able to become more efficient.

[32:46] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and you've got a great chapter on time management. And I really appreciate your point in the book that a lot of it comes down to making first things first, you know, making it a priority to get into classrooms and not say, well, as soon as I can, when, you know, when my schedule allows, I'll try to get into classrooms. Because, you know, I always found that if that was how I approached it, I'd get into classrooms like once a month. Time will allow you to get into classrooms once a month, but if you say to yourself, this is my job, this is the work, and I'm going to get into classrooms three times a day, it's surprising what we can pull off if it's one of those, like Stephen Covey used to do the illustration with the big rocks fitting into the jar. If you put the big rocks in first before the sand, before the gravel, before the water, it's a remarkable difference in how much you can fit in. So that's always been my, you know, my encouragement to principals is put those big rocks in first, get those visits on your calendar.

[33:40]

And you have some great actual examples of your calendars in the book and talk about scheduling. What's some of your advice for principals who feel like they need to do this, they need to put on that coaching hat more frequently and get into classrooms, but feel like they can't quite make it happen or they haven't been able to up to this point? What's some of your advice on that front?

[34:01] SPEAKER_02:

I would say put it on your calendar first thing in the morning then, right away. As soon as that bell rings, go do it before everything else happens. And some of the tools we provided in the relationship chapter, sometimes a principal is just going to need to take a step back and look at themselves as a principal and what they do. We give some leadership style trackers for them to just, you know, watch your leadership style, see which ones you fall into the most. Watch your interactions with teachers prior to even putting on a coaching hat. Watch where you're at.

[34:36]

What type of interactions are you having? What's taking up your time? Are you spending the most amount of your time in evaluations? Are you taking a lot on student discipline? Where's your time going? And then from there, you can start to set some goals for yourself as far as when you want to start layering things.

[34:56]

this coach approach in. How is coaching, and we put this in the book, how is coaching teachers going to help in the area of student discipline? Well, a lot of times it eliminates a lot of it because you are actually in classrooms and just your presence in classrooms is going to help eliminate some of the discipline issues. You're checking in with students as you're in with teachers. Johnny, who was misbehaving, you're now popping in and asking Johnny quickly, how's it going? So you're right there with them.

[35:31]

So all principals are going to take the approach in a different way. But hopefully that they can reach out to us through Twitter and through our emails and so forth to ask questions. And we just hope that they have a lot of fun along the way as they put this hat on.

[35:54] SPEAKER_01:

So Jessica, Shira, and Kathy, if people want to connect with you on Twitter, tell us about what you do on Twitter, the EduCoach chat.

[36:01] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so the EduCoach chat happens every Wednesday night at 8 p.m. Central Standard Time. Instructional coaches, school leaders, principals, we have teachers who jump in there. We have a different topic each week. If I'm on my game, I post a poll every weekend so we go off of a vote.

[36:21]

And There's just great conversation that happens every Wednesday night with EduCoach.

[36:26] SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's been really great to see that EduCoach chat continue over the years and really pick up so much steam and result in your professional relationship and the book itself. So my hat goes off to you.

[36:39] SPEAKER_02:

Well, and you know what? There's another version of it, too. Our friends in Australia started, what is it? Is it EduCoach OC? For the ocean area. Yeah, so if you are up in the middle of the night, that one could maybe meet your time zone.

[36:56]

It's once a month, and it's like their first Monday night of the month, which ends up being like 5.30 Central Standard Time.

[37:07] SPEAKER_01:

So the book is The Coach Approach, Leading Teachers to Higher Levels of Effectiveness by Jessica Johnson, Shira Leibovitz, and Kathy Perrette. Thank you so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio.

[37:18] SPEAKER_02:

Thanks a lot for having us.

[37:21] SPEAKER_00:

And now, Justin Bader on high-performance instructional leadership.

[37:26] SPEAKER_01:

So high-performance instructional leaders, what did you take away from our conversation today on Principal Center Radio? I hope that you've been inspired to put on that coaching hat, to wear that hat with pride. And even if you don't have the exact type of expertise that a teacher you're observing has, I want to encourage you to step into that coaching role, out of that judge role, out of that evaluator role, and really ask yourself how can i be of service to this teacher how can i be a learner in this teacher's classroom in order to make myself more effective as a leader and in order to help this teacher continue to grow i am excited about this book this is a book that really really resonates with me you'll find my endorsement somewhere in the the early pages of it And we are actually doing a little bit of a giveaway. If you go to principalcenter.com slash coach, you can sign up to enter the giveaway.

[38:19]

We are giving away several copies of The Coach Approach. If you are an ASCD member and you get the books in the mail from ASCD, you will get this in the month of May 2017. But we are also giving away a few copies. So go to principalcenter.com slash coach to sign up. You'll also get the first chapter as an immediate download.

[38:41]

You can preview the first chapter of the book, and you'll also be entered to win one of the copies that we're giving away at the Principal Center. And of course, you can find the book on Amazon. Get an order in for your school or district. I am just so excited about this book because I think it's a message that every school leader, every superintendent, every instructional director needs.

[39:00] Announcer:

needs to hear there is so much potential out there that we can tap into in every classroom if we will simply put on the coaching hat and take that role adopt that role with our teachers thanks for listening to principal center radio for more great episodes subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio