[00:01] SPEAKER_00:
Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.
[00:06] Announcer:
Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high-performance instructional leadership, Justin Bader.
[00:13] SPEAKER_01:
Welcome, everyone. Justin Bader here, and my guest today is Matt Miller, author of Ditch That Textbook. The book and the blog have been on my radar for a long time, and Matt, I want to welcome you to Principal Center Radio. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Now, Matt, this book is based on your experience in your classroom.
[00:34]
And I wonder if you could take us just briefly on the journey that you've gone through over the last couple of years that led you to the production of this book.
[00:41] SPEAKER_02:
Definitely. And it has been quite a winding journey, I will tell you that. So I'm a high school Spanish teacher in West Central Indiana, and I've been teaching for almost a full 11 years now. And in the first few years of my teaching career, I would teach very traditionally. And I guess traditionally is one way to look at it. And I wasn't even a very good traditional teacher.
[01:09]
I just kind of did things the way that a lot of my teachers used to do them. So I knew there were textbooks. I knew a lot of times the textbooks had workbooks. There were worksheets. There were just a lot of those standard staples of the average class. And so I relied on those pretty heavily.
[01:25]
I actually kind of enjoyed making my own worksheets. And not that they were super engaging, but I did an awful lot of that. And for a long time, that's just what I thought that teaching was. And so, I mean, I would sort of veer away from the textbook for a little while. But I started to find that my kids couldn't speak Spanish, which is a problem if you're a Spanish teacher. And so...
[01:51]
And what I call sort of a calculated moment of frustration. I'd been thinking about it for a little while. One day I just opened up this big, tall cabinet in the back of my classroom and I said, OK, your books go in here. And so my students started taking their books over there and I kind of dabbled a little bit in teaching without my textbooks. So after that, I started preparing these study guides, which had everything that my students were going to be accountable for for the next week. And so I started handing them out to those.
[02:23]
They were in paper at first. And then eventually we went to Google Apps for Education. And so I started delivering them through Google Docs instead. And so we started doing more Internet-based things. We started creating more, doing conversation more. It hasn't been easy yet.
[02:38]
And it's been some work, but my students seem to at least enjoy class a lot more. They're much better speakers of Spanish, and I enjoy what we do better, too.
[02:49] SPEAKER_01:
So, Matt, that definitely sounds familiar, that feeling of the textbook not really connecting with students and not really being the best guide to how we need to spend our time in class. Did you get any pushback from administrators or from parents or from students when you told kids to put their books back in the
[03:07] SPEAKER_02:
You know, a lot of people ask me this question, and I kind of wish that I had this story of, yes, and I had to fight back against the administrators, and I had to put those parents in their place. And I really don't have a story like that. I was very fortunate and very blessed to have supportive administrators and parents, for that matter. And I think the overriding sentiment with all of them was that they wanted the best education for their students. And if I was if I had found a way that I thought was going to deliver that better, then they were all for it. So I have yet to have a principal tell me, you know, we bought those textbooks.
[03:47]
You really need to use them. I just I haven't had any of that yet.
[03:51] SPEAKER_01:
So I mean, everybody knows textbooks are not what we envision as kind of the highest and best books. view of instruction. And I just feel like they're kind of a safety net, but we don't want them to be a ceiling. We don't want them to hold us back. Is that kind of where you're coming from?
[04:07] SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you ask any teacher what some of their best activities are that they've done with their students or their favorite moments with their students, it's not going to be, yeah, my favorite moment was when we turned to page 109 and we answered all of the odd questions. Sure. That's just not going to happen. It's when we break away from it and we start to get creative and we think about the kids in our class and what their desires are and how we know that they learn best and we factor in where they are in the learning process and we start to custom make things. That's when we start to get those memorable experiences that the kids are going to remember and that's going to keep us passionate about teaching.
[04:45]
And I've just found that the textbook can be a source of reference if you really need it to be. But most of my best teaching has come when I've tried to break away from it.
[04:55] SPEAKER_01:
Well, Matt, let's talk about what it looks like in your classroom, because obviously putting away the textbook is only the starting point. What did you do in your class to make things truly different? And what does that look like if you could take us into your classroom?
[05:07] SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, absolutely. So sort of the backbone of my classroom is my class website. My class website has sort of become like my dynamic, ever-changing textbook. And so when I make these study guides out of Google Documents that I was talking about before, a link to those gets put onto my website. And all I do to make that website is it's just done in Weebly, which is a free website creator. I highly recommend it.
[05:34]
It's super easy to use. It's just drag and drop interface. And so... I created my website off of that and my students will actually, and we have Chromebooks in my class.
[05:47]
I have a cart of Chromebooks so everybody can have one. We're not fully one-to-one. And so my students will basically go get a Chromebook out of the cart and will go straight to my class website and open up the most current study guide. And they just know to do that. And then in addition to that, I'll put links to maybe news articles in Spanish that I want us to look at or a practice activity that I want us to go out and do. Or I can add pictures of what we're doing in class.
[06:16]
Or if I wrote a really good reference that they might want to come back to up on the board, I'll just take a picture of it with my iPad and just stick it over on the class website. And so the website has really kind of become the hub. That's kind of like our home base. Sometimes we'll veer off of that home base and go to other places. Sometimes it'll be a Google Hangout that I'll lead up at the projector. I've actually had students do individual Google Hangouts with students from another country where Spanish is spoken.
[06:48]
That's been a really cool experience. We do a lot of creating with Google Apps. One of my go-to tools there is Google Drawings. There's just so much you can create there. And then just another handful of great creation sites like WeVideo and PowToon and Quizlet.
[07:08] SPEAKER_01:
I mean, I could go on and on. Sure. And the tools will and can change. But I think the theme that I see running through your book is just one of relevance, you know, matching the tool to whatever you're trying to accomplish, whatever your students need. And you can be so much more agile with that if you have a website, if you have this collection of study guides versus a textbook that was written, you know, probably over 10 years ago by someone that you don't know.
[07:31] SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it's not that hard these days to stay relevant to because you said tools will change. And that's that's definitely the truth. And I've found by being connected on Twitter, I mean, if I could preach the big thing that a teacher could do to take their teaching to the next level, I still think that. getting connected to other educators is the best thing. And that's just a place where I'm constantly seeing new ideas, new tools, new philosophies about education, new people that really help me to drive all of that forward.
[08:06]
So it's not that I'm really smart and I've dreamt up all of these ideas on my own. It's really finding that source of really good ideas and putting those into play.
[08:17] SPEAKER_01:
So, Matt, as you've seen your students succeed with these digital resources and the new approaches that you're using, how has your role changed? Because, you know, if you start your career with traditional textbooks, just kind of going from chapter one to chapter 30, then that puts you in a particular role. And if you stop doing that, I would think that would change your role. Have you seen that shift over time?
[08:39] SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, I've seen that change a lot in my teaching career because before, when I was relying so heavily on my textbooks, it was kind of like, here's the prescribed vocabulary. Here are the prescribed topics that we need to talk about. And now... I can sort of branch away from that by not focusing on this print textbook that is, I mean, it's set.
[09:03]
It's kind of like set in stone almost once it's printed. But now I can customize the vocabulary to sort of my students' needs and interests. And we can kind of take off on different routes based on their interests as far as activities that we do. You know, if they're sort of musically inclined, there are ways that we can go that way. And if they're – you know, whatever their skill set is, then we can kind of – Go that route so that we're putting things in their wheelhouse so that whatever their strength is, we can build upon that so that that's what they're comfortable with. They can produce things that they're really proud of.
[09:48] SPEAKER_01:
Well, Matt, it's clear that you've explored a lot of new territory and found a lot of success in that, as you've described in your book, Ditch That Textbook. What advice do you have for administrators to both not be in the way of teachers going through a similar process in their own practice, and in terms of actually supporting people to move to make instruction more relevant, to take advantage of technology, and to really step out of that gatekeeper and deliverer of information role that we've traditionally seen ourselves in? What can leaders do to make that happen in classrooms?
[10:21] SPEAKER_02:
I have a couple of ideas and knowing my perspective, I'm a classroom teacher and have been and have never served in an administrative role, but I have served under a handful of different principals, some better than others. And I think one of the biggest things that they could do is create an atmosphere that lets teachers know that if they're gonna take a risk, if they're gonna take a chance on doing something differently, that that's okay. Because I know in a lot of places, some teachers are just terrified about doing that because they're afraid that if the students don't succeed, then it shows up on their evaluation, their evaluation goes down, eventually their job becomes in jeopardy. And they really want to jump out and...
[11:08]
And try something different, try something innovative that they're excited about and that they think will have great gains for the student or will maybe help the student to develop into a more rounded, better individual. But they're not willing to do that because they're nervous and that atmosphere hasn't been promoted. So I really think that's one thing. And another thing that has been huge for me is whenever I have administrators that are visible. where I know that they're connected with the classes that, you know, not necessarily that they come in and observe all the time, but just that they're out there. They're asking you about what you're doing, maybe throwing in a little bit of advice or asking some questions and really just being invested in the teachers and invested in what they're doing.
[11:56]
So I think that's just a little thing that can go a long way is to, you know, maybe go and pat a teacher on the back and just say, you know, I'm I trust you and I want you to do what you think is best for the kids. And if that means taking a little bit of a risk, then I support you. Or, you know, just just, you know, asking that follow up question or or just throwing in some sort of comment that shows that you're paying attention. I think a principal giving a teacher their full undivided attention is is one of the best gifts they can give.
[12:30] SPEAKER_01:
I think we think in terms of permission, but attention is almost like a prerequisite to permission, isn't it? Just noticing the value in what people are doing.
[12:40] SPEAKER_02:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I know that really validates my work. I think whenever somebody who's really connected to my situation pays attention and shows that they're paying that attention. I mean, that's huge for me.
[12:56] SPEAKER_01:
Well, and I think one of the really nice things about being a connected educator and being on Twitter and seeing into other people's classrooms is that we can all pay much more attention to what other people are doing in a way that I think raises raises the possibilities for everyone. We can learn from each other. We can grab great ideas from anywhere. And I have to say, Matt, I'm very impressed with how many of them you've organized together in Ditch That Textbook. So thank you so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio.
[13:25] SPEAKER_02:
It's been great. Thank you so much, Justin.
[13:27] SPEAKER_00:
And now, Justin Bader on high-performance instructional leadership.
[13:31] SPEAKER_01:
So, high-performance instructional leaders, what did you take away from my conversation with Matt Miller about Ditch That Textbook? Right there at the end, he said something that was easy to miss, but I hope you heard it because I certainly did, and it's the importance of paying attention. If I think back to my time in the classroom, I was a middle school science teacher, and one of the most terrifying feelings I ever had as a teacher was... was this realization that a lot of the time no one was paying attention to what I was doing.
[14:02]
I could do just about anything I wanted, whether it was innovative or whether it was terrible, and no one would really notice. And I think the biggest gift and the biggest support we can give our teachers is to pay attention to what they're doing, to recognize when they're trying something innovative, to be supportive even if those attempts fail. and to just be in the picture as an instructional leader. I think as instructional leaders, we see our role as guiding, but often we don't need to tell people what to do. We don't need to push people in the right direction. We just need to pay attention.
[14:35]
And there may be times when we need to encourage people to take a risk. There may be times when we need to talk people through a failure and let them know that failure is what creates success over time. It's through that process of trying things and figuring out what works and what doesn't that we get better. So instructional leaders, my challenge to you is get into classrooms. And don't just get into classrooms to fill out a checklist, to fill out a form, and to provide feedback. Get into classrooms to listen, to pay attention, and to encourage.
[15:05] Announcer:
Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.
