Let Them Speak: How Student Voice Can Transform Your School

[00:01] SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high-performance instructional leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:15] SPEAKER_01:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to welcome back to the show my friend, Dr. Rick Jetter. Rick is lead consultant and partner at Pushing Boundaries Consulting. A former teacher, assistant principal, principal, assistant superintendent, and superintendent, Rick is the author of six books. And this is his second book with Rebecca Cota, his partner at Pushing Boundaries. And the book is Let Them Speak, How Student Voice Can Transform Your School.

[00:42] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:45] SPEAKER_01:

Rick, welcome back to Principal Center Radio. Thanks so much, man. Great to be back. Love it. Well, Rick, I know we have some channels for student voice in most schools. I'm thinking about student council and different leadership opportunities like that that we provide for students.

[00:58]

But I'm intrigued by this concept of actually allowing student voice to transform a school. And I wonder if you could share a little bit of your vision for the role of student voice in that transformation process.

[01:10] SPEAKER_00:

When Rebecca and I wrote this book, we gathered a ton of data from the field, just talked with a lot of kids for a long time. And we thought, you know, we talked to educators about so many different issues. And in what ways can we have kids really drive what we need to know about making change in our schools? So we looked at it from a topical perspective. that can kids give us input about anything? And they did.

[01:42]

And that's what we wrote about. It's not about getting kids up at a board meeting or having kids from student council, you know, speak to the staff. We can get students involved on everyday matters, dealing with instruction to school policy to how the school functions. So we're really proud to just tap into kids' voices regarding anything.

[02:06] SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And I'm reminded of some of the research from the Leadership for Learning study that said that instructional leadership is something that's inherently distributed. It's not just administrators that are instructional leaders. It's a shared responsibility that's stretched over all educators. And I thought, you know, what if it's stretched over students too? What if it's kind of a tent that we all hold up by kind of reaching for the stars ourselves and seeing what we can each contribute?

[02:33]

I really like that idea of extending that leadership to students? Because as we've seen from recent events, I mean, they are ready to exercise that leadership. But I think it can also be a little bit scary to us as adults that, you know, that we might have to implement some of the ideas that we hear from students or that we might have to address some of the issues that not only staff and community members are raising, but that students are raising as well. So what have you seen in terms of that kind of fear response that we as educators tend to kind of naturally have in response to a heightened level of leadership from students?

[03:08] SPEAKER_00:

That's a great question. You know, so adults oftentimes think that they're in charge, right? They have the master's degree. They have the doctoral degree, perhaps, that they're in charge of the decision making, the collaboration on an adult level and in care of the school, right? So we contend that there's this concept called healthy treason that we write about in our book. And healthy treason is really tapping into what students think about really anything that adults are talking about.

[03:40]

But we're not scared to open up and look at what kids say about anything that we think is an adult issue. So, you know, whether it's, you know, a question about policy or budget or scheduling or things that we think are adult issues, we're saying, hold on a second. What do our kids think? You know, we've got to just take a huge step back and think like, wow, what are, what are we doing each day that can include our students? Not, not just their voices, right. But their hearts and what's going to make them feel like a million bucks in our schools.

[04:20]

And, you know, in what ways can I, as a teacher or a school leader or a superintendent or a board member. what can we do to invite students to feel comfortable enough to talk to us? It's not even about just student voice. It's the comfort of getting students to reveal their voices. And with all the tragedies that are happening You know, back from Columbine to now, present day and things that may happen, you know, who knows tomorrow or the next day? Where are students going to lead us to make better decisions to carry out an education for them?

[05:02]

You know, that's the crux of it. It's this partnership between students and adults. It's not an adult thing. It's it's a partnership with kids.

[05:11] SPEAKER_01:

So, Rick, once we accept the idea that we need to pay attention to student voice, what role do we need to play as educators? What do we need to do?

[05:19] SPEAKER_00:

That's a great question. We try very hard to convince adults first. to tap into student voice before we even get into the topics that student voice can help us motivate and renovate our schools. So we call them, you're either a voice activator or you're a voice muffler. And we go into depth about what these two types of educators look like. And in the onset then of the book, we go into, okay, Have you looked at instruction?

[05:50]

Have you looked at school policies? Have you looked at procedures? Have you looked at motivation? Have you looked at school safety? Have you looked at bullying programs? So we try to then go into all sorts of programs that we've gathered data from students who have told us things that actually change our mindset about what we think as adults works best in schools.

[06:17]

So the whole point of the book is we gather narratives from students that will help us to look at things differently. And that's the whole premise of Let Them Speak. In what ways can we look at things differently? rather than an adult mindset, that we've gathered insights from kids who are just waiting to pour their hearts out about what they think about every nook and cranny about what we do as educators in a school setting.

[06:46] SPEAKER_01:

I love that idea of narrative, because I think it's something that we experience as adults, you know, when we watch a movie or watch a TV show, or lately, you know, in the last couple of years, we've come across some really good narrative podcasts, you know, starting probably with Serial and a lot of people listening to that podcast about a mystery. And we're familiar with that narrative form when it's presented to us by, you know, some sort of author or some sort of writer or producer. But how do we access narrative that is in that authentic student voice when maybe students aren't setting out to produce something for us, but they're just sharing with us because we're asking them to? What does that narrative look like when we start to hear from students?

[07:26] SPEAKER_00:

That's a great point. And it's something we really extensively write about in our book. So narrative exists on a few different levels, right? It's that, okay, a teacher comes in for the day and they have a narrative assignment, right? And it's very formal and it's a formal piece of writing that may involve students to provide input. So what we contend and let them speak is that voices...

[07:48]

can be turned into narrative by both students or adults by the mere fact that we're going to narrativize what they say into print. So that print helps educators, not in just that school, but across the nation or anywhere. So we basically talk about a transcription process, right? So going from a student telling you something on a playground, per se, We would document what they're saying in a narrative that can be shared with anybody. Or students could talk to an adult, or like they did, they talked to me and Rebecca about so many different issues. And we would work with them to then go back to the classroom and write down what it is that they talked to us about so that they can capture that.

[08:38]

that narrativized emotion or that feeling that they want adults to know about. And what's interesting, Justin, is we've had students narrativize what they were saying, and it was used at board meetings to convince adults of better decision-making. It was used in the principal's office for that principal to then carry out better decision-making. So You know, we contend that when a student says something, capture it in writing because it can be used in so many different ways. And it's an informal form of writing, but it's actually the most authentic form of writing that we talk about and let them speak.

[09:22] SPEAKER_01:

So you're actually cultivating that writing and teaching schools to teach students to do that kind of writing when they have some insight that they want to share. They're actually putting pen to paper and writing that down, you know, as a known outlet for that perspective.

[09:37] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And, you know, actually the first draft of the book was called Stories from the Playground, How Student Narratives Can Transform Your School. And, you know, that was actually where we began all this. But we worked with a few students and they, you know, there's Isaiah Sterling out of Missouri, one of our just amazing student leaders who is an advocate of Let Them Speak. He said, you know what? Stories from the playground sounds too elementary.

[10:06]

So let's open it up to try to include everybody conceptually from any K through 12 classroom. And from there, we transform stories from the playground, how narratives can transform your school into a Let Them Speak project. So I agree, we've definitely looked at the role of narratives. But we've opened it up to make sure that we do not exclude any age level of any student anywhere.

[10:34] SPEAKER_01:

Let's talk a little bit about what schools are doing with those narratives. So as schools become more attuned to students' perspectives and more intentional about getting them written up as narratives, not just, you know, put a note in the suggestion box, but really a more active listening process that elicits student thinking and student voice. response to those student narratives?

[10:59] SPEAKER_00:

It would take an awful lot for an adult to say that they do not want to look at a student narrative, right? It's almost like this form of maltreatment if you don't. So we try to contend in our book that narratives can be local or they can be global. And it depends on the student comfort. And it depends on, you know, we've certainly written in some pseudonyms for students. We haven't shared anything with anyone in our book of students who may not feel comfortable with having their name attached to anything.

[11:32]

But here's the important side of it. They still feel like they want to tell adults about what they think. And as I mentioned earlier, these things can be used locally or globally. So students' narratives have been used at the school level. They've been used at the district level, even in board meetings. You know, we've seen student narratives be used on a screen to convince the taxpayers of amazing changes in the eyes of students.

[12:01]

And we've seen these narratives be used at a more global level where they want to blog about it and they want it on social media and they want their stories heard. So we really feel that there's no boundary line with how student voice can be used and how narratives can really transform any school or any district or any community anywhere. And that's the power of when you start to put some of these narratives in writing. It's like, wow, these kids are not only saying this, they're documenting it. And we've got to look at it because it's serious stuff. It is really serious stuff that we cannot ignore.

[12:42] SPEAKER_01:

Well said. And I think on that last point, you're absolutely right that we can't ignore it because the reality is student voice is out there, whether we like it or not. Students are talking to their friends. They're talking to their parents. They are on social media. And in many ways, they are...

[12:58]

the voice of the school to our community. What parents think of our schools, what taxpayers think of our schools depends in large part about what students say about their experience in school. So it makes total sense to me, Rick, that as educators, as people who are ultimately responsible for what happens in schools, that we would be among the most eager recipients of those messages from students. Absolutely.

[13:22] SPEAKER_00:

100%. It's a bigger issue than we think. until we go down that road and decide. We make a conscious decision Okay, are we going to value student voice or not, right? Or are we going to say that we value it and really not do much about it? So we've got to be committed here.

[13:43] SPEAKER_01:

Well, let me ask about some action steps, Rick. I know what we've been talking about is something that we all kind of aspire to. We all want to consider student voice to hear those narratives from students. But if you could wave a magic wand and get everyone in our profession to take an action to get started down this path, what would you have us do?

[14:00] SPEAKER_00:

Well, I would first tell people that the barrier of there's not enough time is really just a big excuse. And it doesn't have to be a big initiative. It doesn't have to drain an adult's time with all the stuff we have to do in education as adults. But if you make a commitment to just try it and start small and take a baby step with an issue that you want to open up to kids, go for it. Right. So we have a document on our website, let them speak.net.

[14:39]

And we have a document of 100 prompts that can get you started to thinking about how you can tap into student voice. And it might be just right. You wake up in the morning as a teacher or a principal and you go to school and And you're faced with your day agenda that you have to accomplish and responsibilities and tasks that you have to do. We're saying time out. Look at just one of those. Look at just one thing that you have to do.

[15:10]

And before you make a decision as an adult, have you asked kids about it? And that's all it takes, right? It's just starting small. And taking those baby steps to carrying out just one way that you can tap into student voice to make our schools better. And it really, it's amazing with the results that you'll find. It's like, wow, if I didn't ask my kids about that, I wouldn't know what I didn't know.

[15:40]

And it's just, all it takes is a second, right? It's one second of reflection. that you can ask kids about anything and your world will just open up into something different than it is.

[15:53] SPEAKER_01:

Well, and it really strikes me as right up there with getting into classrooms. You know, just as leaders, we need to get into classrooms and talk with teachers and see what's going on. As far as teaching and learning, we need to talk with students. We need to figure out what their experience of school is and identify those opportunities for taking it to the next level. Well, Rick, thanks so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio. The book is Let Them Speak, How Student Voice Can Transform Your School.

[16:16]

And Rick, if you could repeat for us once again, if people want to go online and find out more about the book, where's the best place for them to do that online?

[16:23] SPEAKER_00:

LetThemSpeak.net. We invite you to read the stories that are there already and be a contributor and download our free resource of 100 prompts for student voice.

[16:34] SPEAKER_01:

Rick, thanks again for joining me on Principal Center Radio.

[16:36] SPEAKER_00:

Thanks so much, Justin. Always appreciate it.

[16:39] SPEAKER_02:

And now, Justin Bader on high performance instructional leadership.

[16:43] SPEAKER_01:

So high performance instructional leaders, what did you take away from my conversation with Dr. Rick Jetter about student voice? I want to encourage you to check out Rick's Let Them Speak project with his co-author Rebecca Cota. And I want to encourage you to take a risk. You know, there's always the fear that students will say something that we then have to deal with. But the reality is, just like with getting into classrooms, those things are happening.

[17:08]

Those situations are occurring, whether we hear about them or not. So just as I encourage people to get into classrooms through the Instructional Leadership Challenge, I want to encourage you to take this challenge from Rick and Rebecca to start listening to student voice and start giving it a more prominent place in your community, in your communication, in your decision-making, because that's where it belongs. Schools ultimately are here for students. We exist. Our jobs exist to meet students' needs. And where better to learn where our biggest opportunities are for improvement than from students themselves?

[17:42]

So again, the website is LetThemSpeak.net.

[17:46] Announcer:

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