Full Transcript

[00:01] SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center and Champion of High Performance Instructional Leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:14] SPEAKER_01:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to be joined today by Dr. Ruth Ashe and Dr. Pat Hodge, who are founding partners of Education Solutions, a consultancy working with K-12 school organizations. Dr. Ash is a former superintendent and is a nationally known consultant focused on educational leadership and organizational effectiveness. And Dr. Hodge is a former district administrator and is a national consultant working with administrators and teachers in developing student-focused instructional practices and cultures.

[00:45]

And they both teach at the higher education level and have written a book called Five Critical Leadership Practices, The Secret to High-Performing Schools.

[00:55] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:58] SPEAKER_01:

Ruth and Pat, welcome to Principal Center Radio.

[01:00] SPEAKER_02:

Thank you. Very glad to be here.

[01:02] SPEAKER_01:

So tell us a little bit about the work that you do with schools and school systems and how you developed the five critical leadership practices that you share in this new book.

[01:11] SPEAKER_02:

Well, originally we were looking at principals and superintendents who make a difference in student learning, who increase student learning, and how to help school boards hire those kind of school leaders. And we realized there was really not anything out there that worked towards that purpose. So we looked at all of the major models of leadership that makes a difference in student achievement and sort of correlated them all to come up with the five critical practices. And those practices are critical practice one, focus on direction. Two, build a powerful organization. Three, ensure a student-focused vision and action.

[01:53]

Four, give life to data. And five, lead learning. And then we looked at many, many schools and school districts who had improved student learning over time significantly and found that they all use these five critical practices.

[02:09] SPEAKER_01:

So it sounds a little bit like the way Jim Collins and his team put together Good to Great, where they would do these in-depth case studies and then compare across organizations and look for big patterns and themes. Is this the type of work that you've been doing with organizations for a long time?

[02:26] SPEAKER_02:

We love Good to Great, and so that is pretty much the way we approach this issue. And in our book, we have 23 case studies. We would have had more, but there wasn't room in the book. I really like case studies professionally because we know theory and we know there are numerous books that tell us do this and a list of things that educators should do. And we, we know a lot of that already. What we really put the missing component is how does it look in action?

[03:00]

And that's what we were trying to do with the case studies is to say, not only are these excellent strategies or practices, but, they really work and this is how they work. And I will say too that we have used a number of ideas from business really in our work with schools and school systems and the one idea or the one concept that schools often miss is that leaders need to facilitate innovation and so the idea I think that we usually share with people is that educational leaders make a difference in student learning and that leading collaboration and facilitating innovation are two key skills. Because some principals and superintendents may still believe and really act on the belief that the leader makes all the important decisions and that's challenging the status quo as a negative action.

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But really, leaders need to bring everyone together to help make decisions. And they need to encourage conversations about new ideas for improvement.

[04:00] SPEAKER_01:

Well, let's talk about that a little bit more, because I think that's one of our big challenges in what I think is a very conservative profession. I think we tend to have a bias toward keeping things the same, toward keeping what's working working and not rocking the boat. And certainly, there is a necessary tension between continuity and change. What do you feel is something that leaders can do to respect that need for continuity while also taking seriously the need for innovation and change?

[04:35] SPEAKER_02:

Well, I guess you may be sort of asking the question, how do we as leaders help people do things differently?

[04:41] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

[04:41] SPEAKER_02:

And one answer is that we build trust. We recognize trust when we see it. Faculty and staff and students say what's on their minds, and they feel free to take risks, even if their efforts don't always succeed. People talk openly about what is and is not working, and they make collective decisions, and they ask questions, even if the answers may not be what they want to hear. One interesting study showed that schools with high levels of trust were three times more likely to show student learning increases than those with low trust levels. So really building trust could be the subject of an entire radio show.

[05:16]

But basically, leaders will build trust through communicating openly, doing what they say they will do, and trying to do the right thing, and getting to know staff personally, and sometimes just simply asking for input and taking the advice given builds trust. You know, one of the principals that we interviewed and observed said, bottom line, after we had talked at length, said, really, it's all about the relationship, not just the teacher's or the students, but also the community, parents. It's building those relationships because in order for principals today to effect change, they have to have a lot of support. And that includes community members and everyone who has a vested interest in the school.

[06:08]

And really, that's everyone. Everyone has a vested interest in the school.

[06:11] SPEAKER_01:

Well, let's get into that issue a little bit more, because I think what I have seen people intentionally try to do to me personally as a leader, but I think this dynamic exists across the profession, where the more we listen and the more we have strong relationships, there is a tendency to develop patterns of influence that lend themselves to status quo, that shift things toward keeping the same. And we all have teacher leaders. We all have forward-thinking people in our community who are advocating for change and who have some clarity about the direction they want that change to go. But I have to say, I feel like there are some seriously strong forces operating in our profession to keep things the way they are and to kind of...

[07:00]

I guess kind of bring it, bring leaders down to a, a lower level of expectation for change. Um, so, so what's the, uh, what's the response to that? How do we both, uh, you know, form those good trusting relationships and have a strong culture, have a, um, I was looking at your chapter titles and chapter five is working with others to create a powerful organizational structure, which sounds very consistent and durable and long-term. And then chapter six is leading an organization in becoming agile and flexible. So talk to us about how do we do both of those things at the same time? How do we have a strong structure and how do we have strong relationships, but also lead people into flexibility and adaptability?

[07:47] SPEAKER_02:

Well, and that's within the build a powerful organization practice. And really effective leaders will consistently and constantly ask the question, what is best for students? So you see there, they're asking the same question all the time. And then as teachers, staff, stakeholders answer that question, their answers will help frame new processes for decision making. And so the leaders are then creating environments that encourage high levels of learning and that support faculty and staff in risking new practices. often really stepping considerably outside of their comfort zones.

[08:20]

One teacher, I mean one principal in our book, and this quote is in our book too, says, really in education, we shouldn't need to worry about stepping outside the box. There should be no box. Right. You know, and another thing, and this kind of blends several of our practices, is we've seen and have experienced personally that unless you are able to identify the direction of your school or district or organization, as we all know, then you'll just be all over the map. And one of the critical things that must occur with any school and principal is that Collaboratively identifying your core beliefs, what you're willing to go to the mat for as far as teaching and learning are concerned.

[09:16]

And then building your organization around that, because everything that happens in a school from the moment they walk out the door at home. and get on the school bus or get in the car until the moment they return. It's part of the learning process. So a strong, effective leader makes certain that that's part of the organization, is this is what we believe. We've identified this as our core beliefs. And everything we do, we're going to filter through this lens of beliefs.

[09:53]

And we're not just talking about teachers and leaders. We're talking about cafeteria workers, school custodians, bus drivers. Everyone should be involved who touches the students.

[10:07] SPEAKER_01:

Well, and that seems to get back to the idea that you mentioned at the beginning of our interview around hiring, that you were looking for ways to help superintendents hire the right kind of principals to lead schools to where they need to be. And it sounds like the same thing applies at the school level when we're looking at what kind of organization do we want to be? What kind of organization do we want to build? And the logical question there is then how does that affect how we hire? And as you said, filter who comes in and what comes in.

[10:37] SPEAKER_02:

One thing we observed is critical is when you're looking for a principal and you really want a change agent, you want someone who is willing to step out and lead the school and maybe not a new direction, but an improved direction, is to find someone who's willing to take risks or tackle the hard issues. You know, a few minutes ago you referred to sometimes we, in education, fall into status quo. That's not the phrase you used, but basically I think that's what you were saying, is we don't get beyond what's always possible. in the practice. And superintendents are typically looking for principals who can take us to another level.

[11:30]

Because whatever we are doing now, often, it's not happening. It's not taking us to the next level. And it's not that teachers and principals aren't working hard, because goodness, I don't know any teacher or any principal who doesn't work far beyond what most people expect. And we all know it's working smarter. That's nothing new. But having a leader who can collaborate with the teachers and work with teachers to let go.

[12:04]

And we talk about that a lot in our book, is guiding teachers and their willingness to let go of practices that were wonderful practices that got all kinds of results 15 years ago. But the students of 15 years ago and the students of today are dramatically different. And what they are expected to know when they enter their next level of education or get out into the workforce is dramatically different. they're going to be competing with people all over the world, not just in their classroom. So a real key factor is someone who can lead effectively, not browbeat, but lead all stakeholders in understanding and appreciating the need for something different in schools.

[12:55]

Yes, and they look outside of education for ideas. These leaders that have made a tremendous difference in student learning in their schools they used ideas from diverse fields they found they essentially found the intersections between different ideas and they use these connections to really engage the collective brain power of their schools or districts to try to identify best practices and that's that's a difficult job to do but they've done it

[13:27] SPEAKER_01:

I wonder if you have a particular leader in mind, and I don't know if you can use real names or use the names you use in your case studies, but, um, I wonder if you can share with us a, a story that stands out about a leader who was, was able to do that, who was able to, to kind of perceive the changes that were going on and, and look outside of maybe our, our own typical experience or the, you know, the apprenticeship of observation and, and not lead their school the way they had been led or the way they had experienced school as a student, but really, uh, looked broadly and, and imagined, uh, what could be different. Does anyone stand out in your case study research?

[14:03] SPEAKER_02:

Well, you know, there are 23 of them who stood out. So, so let us just, we would be here all day. So one is, um, and we can use names. We, we used real names in our book because we got releases, but, um, Terry Tomlinson, um, was the principal at George Hall Elementary School in Mobile, Alabama. This was a school that was one of the five worst-performing schools in this very large county in Alabama, South Alabama. And she was brought in.

[14:34]

She and a new assistant principal were brought in and actually hired a new staff, mostly. And they were... What they did was based – a lot of what they did was based on this giving life to data idea. So Terry Tomlinson reviewed student data every day.

[14:57]

She's the principal. The students – I mean, the teachers focused on data all the time. The students knew their own data. And the other thing they did – and this is a school in the middle of the projects in Mobile. So it was high – low – 99% free and reduced lunch. And teachers voted to walk the students home from school every day.

[15:25]

Teachers voted to extend the day by 50 minutes per day. And I can't list all the things they decided to do, but after five or six years, they won the Intel Award for National Intel Award, only one of six schools for mathematics award. They won all kinds of awards. They were the second highest performing school in the state of Alabama. So it's just a tremendous difference. The professional development that they also did was constant, embedded within the school day.

[16:01]

They set up a team room where every student's achievement levels were on the wall in every teacher's classroom. And if a student was in significant trouble, they brought a team together for every individual student who was having trouble, including the counselor, teachers, special education teachers, principal, whoever. And so, I mean, really, those are just some of the things they did. Everybody should go see that school. They have visitors all the time there. There were several schools that did some really miraculous things.

[16:35]

One was in Alaska, and it's the Chugach District. And the things that they did, talk about thinking outside the box, They thought outside the state. I mean, it was amazing what they were able to do and are still doing. And they really, based on feedback from the community, they decided to really reevaluate what they were doing because the students weren't performing at the level that everybody knew they could. And they really weren't taking school as seriously as the community felt they should. and the superintendent led the effort, but it was fully embraced by everyone involved with the system in that they brought in all stakeholders, community, students, teachers, business owners, government, whatever.

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They brought them in, and over a series of a year at least, they interviewed them in structured group meetings and found out, exactly what the community and teachers and students valued and what they wanted out of their schools. And they reconstructed their curriculum, the way they did school, how they assessed, everything. And it's an ongoing process. study and success and prospering. This is a 22,000 square mile school district in Alaska. So that brings its own difficulties with it.

[18:12]

But they now hold school 24 hours a day, seven days a week, anywhere the students are. Every student has their own learning plan that they carry around with them. And each student can tell you exactly where they are, if they're level six in math, level seven in reading or wherever they are. And I'd like to mention another school. The principal is no longer there. She's moved on to another school.

[18:37]

But the principal was Phyllis Faust. And she was moved into the role of principal like the first week into school. She didn't even know that she was going to be the principal because the current principal left and went to another state. She was the third principal in as many years in that same school. So you can only imagine the lack of trust, the broken relationships, whatever, that were prevalent in the school. And she was able to build relationships and help the teachers focus on instruction and focus on student learning in such a way that they were bringing students in and having student focus groups.

[19:29]

having teachers lead focus groups, a variety of activities and practices that got at the root causes of some of the reasons why students weren't doing well and what teachers needed in order to be able to bring about success. So she really saw the entire school as a learning organization and everyone was learning from one another. So it was amazing what could happen in a relatively short period of time and the commitment of the people in that school based on her leadership. And I will say just one more thing about the book, and that is we have included, as well as the case studies, we've included, of course, the theory also, but tips for leaders. Every chapter has tips for leaders, very, very practical ideas that leaders could implement to make

[20:23]

these practices happen.

[20:24] SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I think what's so powerful in hearing you tell these stories is the application that we can see firsthand, because, you know, we all have our lists of leadership standards. We have the ISLIC standards. You know, you have the five critical practices. But I think we all tell ourselves to some extent, you know, I can read through this list and say, oh, yes, I'm a school leader who uses a vision, mission, and strategic plan to make decisions and inform actions. But when I hear you talk about, you know, a staff that that doesn't just treat it as rhetoric that, you know, we do what's best for kids, but that actually votes to walk the kids home because that's what's best for them. I think there's so much power in those stories.

[21:02]

And you said there are 23 principles that you've, or 23 leaders that you've featured as case studies?

[21:07] SPEAKER_02:

23 majority principles, but a number of superintendents also. And so those would be entire school districts. But we were just sitting here nodding our heads when you were saying we all have our ideas.

[21:19] SPEAKER_01:

Well, yeah, because I mean, it's I mean, I'm a researcher, you're researchers. And, you know, it's easy to take kind of an academic perspective on this. And, you know, and we use our academic language to talk about it. But when it comes right down to it, the stories are so powerful. So I very much look forward to that. to seeing in depth the, uh, the work that the leaders that you featured are doing and, and kind of seeing what that looks like, because, you know, to get back to that idea of, uh, you know, of personal experience, you know, I think I know what it means to create a powerful organizational structure and to do strategic planning, but, um, you know, to, to kind of think differently to, to see, uh, things that are maybe not being done in very many places or, or may only be done in, in that particular school.

[22:04]

Um, I think we have a ton to learn from each other. And I can also appreciate the theme of learning from outside of the education world and that idea of root cause analysis where you said, okay, they sat down and interviewed stakeholders. Why do we have this challenge that we have right now? What's the cause of that? What do we need to do about it? You know, it sounds like the kind of five whys process that they use at Toyota to, you know, to solve manufacturing problems and to build systems that, you know, that eliminate problems systematically by learning from their people, by listening to their stakeholders.

[22:40] SPEAKER_02:

Yes, absolutely. And several of the school districts were Baldrige National Quality Award winners. So you know by that that they've done a lot of root cause analysis.

[22:51] SPEAKER_01:

So Ruth and Pat, this has been a lot of fun to talk with you and to hear these stories about the five critical leadership practices. If there's one thing that you could have all administrators do, all school leaders do, if you had your way, what would you like everyone in our profession to do?

[23:05] SPEAKER_02:

We would like everyone to collaborate and innovate and look outside of education for some ideas. And the thing is, in order for schools to collaborate, the leader has to set the stage. and protect that collaborative time and protect people as they are willing to risk and try new things.

[23:29] SPEAKER_01:

Well, thanks, Ruth and Pat. It has been a pleasure to speak with you today. The book is Five Critical Leadership Practices, The Secret to High-Performing Schools. Thanks so much for joining me for Principal Center Radio. Thank you, Justin. Thank you.

[23:42] SPEAKER_00:

And now, Justin Bader on high-performance instructional leadership.

[23:46] SPEAKER_01:

So high-performance instructional leaders, what did you take away from my conversation in this episode of Principal Center Radio with Ruth Ashe and Pat Hodge? As we went through the five critical leadership practices, as I said in the interview, I was reminded of the ISLIC standards and I was reminded of our five pathways for high-performance instructional leadership that we have in the network, our flagship program. But I think what it really comes down to is learning from the best examples out there. And I think we all have mentors. We all have people that we've looked up to who have guided us along the way, who have inspired us, who have sometimes directly told us what to do and mentored us and coached us. If you had a good internship when you were becoming an administrator, then you know what I'm talking about.

[24:32]

And we also have invisible mentors, people who don't know that they've helped us, who don't know that they've educated and inspired us. And often our invisible mentors are people we read about in books or people whose books we read. People like, say, Jim Collins, author of Good to Great. What I want to encourage you to do is seek out both types. Seek out real mentors and people whose practice you can get to know to inform your own practice, and seek out those invisible mentors who can inform your work and fuel your growth as an instructional leader, even if they're in a completely different industry. And if you're interested in learning more about the program that we offer at the Principal Center called the High Performance Instructional Leadership Network, you can find out more about that at principalcenter.com slash leadership.

[25:18] Announcer:

Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.

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