Taking Social Emotional Learning Schoolwide: The Formative Five Success Skills for Students and Staff

[00:01] Announcer:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, helping you build capacity for instructional leadership. Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center, Dr. Justin Bader. Welcome everyone to Principal Center Radio.

[00:13] SPEAKER_00:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to be joined today by my friend, Tom Herk. Tom has had a career of more than 39 years in education, serving at all levels, including school, district, and provincial, and he is one of our profession's leading authors and speakers, the author of more than 20 books, including his latest, Trauma Sensitive Instruction, which we're here to talk about today.

[00:39] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:42] SPEAKER_00:

Tom, welcome to Principal Center Radio.

[00:43] SPEAKER_01:

Thanks, Justin. It's such an honor to be here with you. And boy, I've been following your shows for a long, long time. It's, like I said, a real thrill to be considered one of the people who has now been on with you.

[00:53] SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you. It's an honor to have you here. And I'm excited about this topic because I think it's a timely one. It is one that every school needs to consider that, you know, that's on our minds constantly. And that is dealing with students who have experienced trauma. What does trauma sensitive instruction mean?

[01:09]

Let's get right into it.

[01:11] SPEAKER_01:

It's really about a couple of things. First of all, the awareness that although the current situation, the pandemic is has added layers to this. Let's be clear, trauma was existing in schools long before the pandemic. You and I both have had colleagues share all kinds of stories, and it's on some levels inspiring to see what kids or colleagues have overcome. So when we start to talk about becoming trauma sensitive, it's moving along this continuum. And I think there's room for all of us to grow.

[01:42]

I think in an odd sort of way, one of the things the pandemic has exposed is that potentially some of our responses in the past weren't as fluid or as fluent as they needed to be. And now we're starting to see some of that is that we need to do more. So to become trauma sensitive is, means that we don't always jump on. We don't always respond to. We don't try to become trauma-inducing. It's stepping away from the language that would imply you need to get over these things quickly.

[02:14]

It's stepping away from rushing to consequence and trying to take a step back to understand why am I seeing this? What might be the reason behind? What attributes does the child have that I could leverage as we work to try and change the behavior, not the individual.

[02:35] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and knowing that this is just a fact of life for many of our students, that they have experienced trauma. We don't pick our students. We don't teach the students. We create in our minds. We teach the students who show up in front of us as they are. And that has some implications for us that I think you go into some great detail on in the book.

[02:57]

What are some of the obvious and maybe less obvious implications for us as educators of students coming to school with varying degrees of trauma? What does it mean? Because obviously, we know that it can lead to struggle, it can lead to maybe behavior issues, maybe learning challenges. But specifically, what implications does trauma have for teaching?

[03:16] SPEAKER_01:

So, you know, I think all of your listeners will be familiar with the, you know, the fight or flight response. We've added the freeze to that of late, right? And it's even at that level to understand. So when we are exposed to a traumatic event, a fear inducing event, you know, without getting into a whole lot of detail, what it does is it triggers the amygdala to release cortisol. Cortisol stays in the body for two to three hours. When cortisol is in the body, learning is shut down.

[03:44]

So imagine that scenario where a child arrives to school and the colleague just simply greets them pleasantly, professionally, and the kid snaps back. We need to understand it had nothing to do with that moment. It had to do with what the child witnessed before they got to school. And that that cortisol flush is now causing them to not be able to think coherently and to be open to this wonderful adult because the adult they may have just left wasn't so wonderful. So we've got to be willing to depersonalize this, to not bite on every hook thrown our way. That's a telltale sign.

[04:26]

And so what we need to be able to do is to step away from that. So it reminds me that as colleagues, When we are there to greet kids, are you doing it to show yourself or are you doing it to receive something? So even if we took that first step of, wow, why? I just greeted Justin with a good morning and he snapped back at me. Rather than me now thinking I should snap back and escalate this situation because it's about power now, it's got to be around, wow, I wonder why. So even if we could begin with that as that first step, you're going to move along that continuum to becoming more trauma sensitive.

[05:05] SPEAKER_00:

I love that word of depersonalizing and choosing not to take it personally and see it instead as a sign that something else is going on that's maybe not ideal. in that student's life. Let's talk a little bit, if we could, about some of the structures that we can put in place as educators, because the subtitle of the book is Creating a Safe and Predictable Classroom Environment. And that predictability plays a special role for students who've dealt with trauma, doesn't it? For sure, right?

[05:33] SPEAKER_01:

And again, if we think about it, and every one of your listeners will almost be instantly able to recall a kid, right? We know a couple of things about those kids who challenge us the most. Number one... They actually need us the most.

[05:46]

They may not always demonstrate it. They may not demonstrate it in a positive way. They may not put their hand up and say, help me. They may do something more flagrant, right? The other thing about those kids is they have sometimes the best attendance records, even though sometimes we like just to have a break, right? Well, there's some communication happening.

[06:06]

We're all familiar with the notion that behavior is a form of communication. So now what's the message the child is trying to deliver is the first thing. The second thing, kids who are going through very difficult times thrive on routine. They don't adjust well to us flipping things on its head just because. These are the kinds of kids who need that structure, who need the routine to be able to process through, right? They need a little bit of space.

[06:37]

So one of the things we talk about is how do you build relationships? What are the ways you build connections? One of my favorite that I've shared with colleagues over the years is the DNA activity, right? Not the DNA I used to teach as a high school biology teacher, but the DNA defined as their dreams, their needs, and their abilities. And if you start to learn every child's dreams, needs, and abilities, you start to shape the learning environment. So as an example, recently I had one of the students share with me that his need was he needs some peace and quiet.

[07:10]

All right. So I can understand then in the world that child occupies outside of us, it may not be calm. So now I know as the teacher, when we structure some of the learning, it's okay to if that child has his or her own learning space where they can indeed get some peace and quiet, right? So we begin to build that relationship connection. Listen, I've yet to meet a kid who is connected who disappoints, right? We all know of situations where kids have responded way better to colleague A than to colleague B.

[07:45]

And then we find out why. I want to go back to what you'd said earlier about You know, the kids we have, these are the kids we have. Your mentor, Wayne Hulley, who passed away a number of years back, used to always say it this way. He'd say, parents are sending you the best kids they got, right? They're not holding on to the really bright ones saying, hey, try the dull ones on first. If you're successful with them, we'll send you our smart kids after the Christmas break.

[08:09]

This is who we have, right? And so I work a lot with colleagues on the notion of our house. When kids arrive to school, they arrive to our house. It's the only house over which we have any control. So let's stop lamenting what happens in the other house. Let's understand it may indeed drive the N of DNA, the needs, right?

[08:32]

It's why some kids arrive to school needing to be fed. Some kids arrive to school needing to be nurtured. You know, that kid who arrives Monday morning after the weekend and just talks your ear off. You know that kid had so much to share and needed an adult to listen. So again, those relationship connections that we start to build, our job one as we move along is trauma sensitive continuum.

[08:56] SPEAKER_00:

I want to ask about something that's a little bit difficult when it comes to being sensitive towards students' trauma. And that is the idea that we're tolerating things that should not be tolerated in a school environment. You know, often students' trauma does manifest itself in ways that violate rules, that violate norms, that are challenging to deal with. And I think you and I could agree that we're not simply talking about letting all standards go out the window and letting the learning environment be destroyed by a lack of any kind of expectations or accountability. How do we maintain that accountability in a way that actually works for our students who are dealing with trauma so that we're not just saying anything goes, but we are kind of meeting our students where they are and setting them up for the greatest success possible?

[09:48] SPEAKER_01:

That it all begins with a focus on growth. So let me take you back to my second year of teaching, where after I thought I had a brilliant start to my career as a science teacher, I got asked if I'd like to be the severe behavior teacher. It was that or unemployed, so guess which one I took, right? Having a wife and two children at home meant the severe behavior was in my future, having had no training. Now listen, if I were to send home my students every time they dropped the F-bomb, my class would have been empty by about 8.30 every morning.

[10:17]

Now, Did I need them to understand that in our house, this place we call school, you can't be doing that? Yes. Did they always use the word out of anger? No. They often use the word out of familiarity. It's a word they had heard frequently.

[10:36]

I got to the place where I was recording them, and I'd say, you know, you realize you dropped the F-bomb three times in those two sentences, right? Oh, no, I didn't. Well, let's listen. Now, you notice the second time you used it very descriptively. Can we think of an alternate word? Let's build some vocabulary.

[10:52]

It becomes a – because, listen, if I had just sent them home every time, nothing would have changed. The other environment they grow up in is very open to that. Similarly, when we get them on that continuum of learning that we are measuring growth, if a child is getting frustrated – and goes to blurt out that word, but tries to catch it, even though you may have heard the beginning of the word, you should be saying to the kid, hey, good effort. I know you tried to. Now let's talk about what was going on. We see this in the high school, where kids are a little more sophisticated, may say something under their breath as they walk away.

[11:37]

Listen, it's not the greatest strategy, but it's an attempt at a strategy. And yet I've seen high school teachers follow that child down the hallway. What did you say? What did? Do you really think you're solving some great mystery when they turn around and tell you? Does that make the day better?

[11:54]

So we've got to be appreciating that, yes, you can't use that kind of language. We are in this place. But now we've got to be working towards growth. Are we seeing some improvement in our neediest? If it were academics, we wouldn't make that same cutoff, got it or don't. When it comes to behaviors, we ought to be looking at the same approach.

[12:17] SPEAKER_00:

So in the book, you talk about some specific trauma-sensitive classroom management strategies and techniques. And I think a big part of this is being willing to let things go. But there are also some ways of teaching the kind of school-appropriate behaviors and responding to the challenging behaviors. What are some specific examples from the book of those effective classroom management techniques for kids who are dealing with a lot of trauma?

[12:42] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. One of the big things that we talk about is this whole notion of temporary suspension of opinion. Right. And we go through the different levels because, you know, again, in our role and I get it. Educators are asked to make a myriad of decisions every day. And oftentimes there isn't that.

[13:02]

grace of time to be able to reflect. So we've got to find ways to infuse more and more of that time. And so temporary suspension of opinion, when we begin to talk about that, the first level of that is the listening level. And I got to tell you, that's the hard one, right? I think sometimes we listen with intent to speak, not to hear. And so the listening level is that first sort of take step back.

[13:31]

Do we reserve our reaction while we're at the listening level? Right. If we can get to that, then we move into the diagnostic level that although we're still listening, we're beginning to formulate some thoughts around how we might be able to support. And then the third level is the emotional level, making sure we're separating out from the emotional aspects of, because it's easy to get drawn into that emotional downward spiral. That becomes one of the first ways we talk about is, is are you willing to process through without jumping on, right? Without taking a bite on every hook presented to you.

[14:13]

Then we've got to be willing to say, okay, so now what do we know about this kid? Sometimes we all want to have the easy to reach, easy to teach kids, you know, last year's kids or five years ago. Remember those kids? Best kids ever. Here's what I did at the good old days. Right.

[14:30]

You know, I've coined a new phrase for that. The new word is nostalgia. And it's the description of those who can only remember the good about the good old days. Right. And so they've forgotten everything else. Are we prepared to accept students for who they are?

[14:47]

We have a great quote from Macri Batsari that says, you know, students who felt unconditionally accepted by their teachers were more likely to be interested in learning, enjoy challenging academic tasks. They were happy to be in school. They didn't feel like they were sentenced to 13 years of education. So do we unconditionally accept students for who they are? Or do we wish they were all very much the same, right? So again, go back to, you know, when you talk about the DNA of kids, figuring that out, recognizing that they all have some unique contributions.

[15:22]

Once we begin to understand their gifts and their assets, then we can build off of that. That allows then the next layer we're talking about, this whole notion of calmness, stability. You mentioned that earlier, this notion of routines, right? Are we prepared to structure the learning environment that way?

[15:41] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it occurs to me that oftentimes the reactions that we're getting from students seem almost designed to test us to see if we're safe people, to see what kind of reaction we're going to get. And I think we've got to take responsibility for the answer that students get, the calm, the structure, the self-control that we always want to model. is I think a big part of the safety that students need to feel. Let's talk a little bit about the adult implications because certainly as adults, many of us have experienced different degrees of trauma and I'm hearing more and more about the secondary trauma of constantly dealing with students' trauma that can really weigh on educators. And certainly having been a severe behavior teacher earlier in your career, and if you've worked in a high-need school, you know very viscerally what that's like to be frequently on the receiving end of some of those reactions.

[16:38]

What do we need to think about in terms of staff?

[16:39] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and gosh, I'm so appreciative of the fact that humanity in general is taking a much more positive approach to mental health and wellness. It's no longer as stigmatized as it once was, certainly early in my career, that notion of you just got to tough it out, just be strong. Now we're at least willing to say, look, there could be some implications. I know having worked in severe behavior, I think there's a limit to how much time you can work there without almost needing a refresher, a relax, a break almost in because there are so many stories. that are quite draining on you emotionally, right? Equally, though, in terms of, you know, that secondary traumatic thing is the flip side of that, that secondary transformation, where we can be inspired by what people have overcome.

[17:36]

You know, and some of the stories we see kids, you know, doing or colleagues who have gone through some very difficult times and emerged on the other end. You know, there's a great study from the University College of London that talks about how long it takes to adopt a new behavior. And the range was 18 to 254 days. We've got 254 day kids in most schools. Now think about what that means. That's more than a school year.

[18:06]

Are we prepared to dig in? Because we know some of our kids have come from environments that are not conducive to learning. And we've got to take some time to rebuild. You talked about rebuilding that trust of kids knowing. There's not going to be the automatic light up just because you say good morning the first day. That child's going to test you.

[18:27]

You're saying good morning on a Friday? What about if I see you in the afternoon? How about if I see you on the weekend? Are you still going to be kind to me? Because their overall experience has been adult kindness is equated to an adult needing something, not giving something. So their guard is up.

[18:48]

We've got to come to appreciate that. Now, could it be tiring? Yes. You know, 254 day kid is not going to change just because of Justin. It's going to change because Justin and his colleagues all decide together. And we do give each other a break.

[19:04]

And when that glorious moment comes and Justin says, hey, you know what? Tom today said good morning to me. He what? He said good morning. Are you sure it was good morning? Well, no, it wasn't really the words.

[19:15]

He kind of just nodded his head ever so slightly to me. I almost didn't catch it. We got to be ready to notice those things, right? And then celebrate those things. That whole sense of caring, of building that relationship becomes really part of what we need to be doing.

[19:37] SPEAKER_00:

And I think the importance of understanding that delay is really central. Just the reality that this kind of change in our students' behaviors and their trust of us really takes time. It takes much more time than we think it will. And it's kind of like, you know, if you're adjusting the thermostat and then just expecting an immediate change in the temperature of the room, you're going to be disappointed, right? And I remember, you know, you've seen people turn the thermostat down to 57 degrees because they're hot. Well, you don't need to set it to 57 degrees.

[20:07]

You just need to have expectations that it's going to take a while. And for our students who need the most from us, it may take much longer than we think it quote unquote should.

[20:17] SPEAKER_01:

You know, we thought in the book, you know, Covey's you know, a model of the emotional bank account, right? We may need to make a whole lot more deposits before we can see a withdrawal happening. And that's just the way it goes. You know, you've got kids whose bank balance is well into the red and they are not necessarily going to say, wow, you said good morning to me and instantly grow. It's going to take a whole lot more, a whole lot more, a whole lot more. Are you sincere?

[20:50]

Are you doing it to give something of you? Are you doing it to receive something? Because, you know, our kids who challenge us the most, the kids who have been through a lot, they also have the best BS detectors going, right? They know. They know if you're sincere. They know if you're really interested.

[21:08]

or if you're trying to shine them on.

[21:09] SPEAKER_00:

Let's talk a little bit, if we could, about families. And as we've discussed a little bit, often what a student has dealt with is a result of factors in their family, but families are also an important part, of course, of every child's education and of whatever efforts we're doing to build those bridges, to build those relationships. Families need to be a part of that. How can we engage families as part of our response to trauma?

[21:37] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I think the first part we have to do is really what you're touching on. We have to not evaluate families. So when I go to work with schools and talk about this whole notion of our house, I'm tired of lamenting the other house. I don't want to set up with kids that the house they go to has terrible adults in it. That's outside of my purview as an educator. I get to be in control with my colleagues of our house.

[22:03]

And when you come to our house, you got all these surrogate moms and dads who are going to model what we expect, who are going to show you, who are going to give you this belief that you can, in fact, become a reader, a writer, a mathematician, a self-regulator. I'm going to invite parents in, but I'm also going to understand that those parents who are maybe the cause of some of the trauma are not likely to show up, right? So who do we work with? I want to open things up. I want to have the invitation. But, you know, we start the book off with the adverse childhood experiences.

[22:35]

Right. And we know a lot of our adults have gone through adverse childhood experiences, which has severe impact on their ability to parent as well. And so are we open to the communication? Do we invite parents in? Do we engage parents in some of the learning opportunities? And so I think there's a whole chapter that talks about the importance of parent and family engagement and the strategies that we might want.

[23:05]

The research is clear and unequivocal. When we can get parents online, all those things rise, every measure we think about. But now we want to be having them engaged, not just involved. Right. So how do we get that happening on behalf of and, you know, to your point, there's also always going to be that sensitivity. And if they're the ones who are inducing the trauma, they might not necessarily want to be the ones coming into the schools immediately.

[23:35]

That recognition that this is indeed a journey, the recognition that we are also going to have colleagues going through trauma. I mean, this pandemic, again, has highlighted that, right? I don't think you have any degrees of separation anymore. I think everybody knows somebody who tested positive. Many people will have experienced loss of a friend or a family member as a result of it. I mean, I saw a stat recently that said one in 500 Americans tested has died from COVID.

[24:07]

That's not a big, you know, that's a huge number in terms of ease. So we also gotta be trauma sensitive and trauma aware for our colleagues. People are going through the best way they know how to. This trauma has reignited past traumas for people. And so that notion of sensitivity also has to be there. You know, we're getting back out on the road.

[24:29]

I was traveling recently and I know I had a couple of teachers come up and say, listen, I know they've set the gymnasium up and they put the chairs 10 feet apart. And I know everybody needs to be masked, but I still don't feel comfortable going into that space. Is it all right if we stay outside in the lunchroom and and they're going to pipe in the presentation. Of course it's all right. So we need to have that sensitivity for our colleagues as well.

[24:54] SPEAKER_00:

So Tom, given the range of advice you have in the book, if you could get everyone in our profession, all school leaders, to take one particular action, what would that be?

[25:05] SPEAKER_01:

I think the one thing that is foundational to all of this work, and really it's probably from a personal bent as well to my work, is that every kid in every school will be known by name, by what they are, what they can accomplish, right? So if you were to check that out with your schools today, if you were to put every kid's picture up in a faculty lounge and you gave every adult sticky dots, would every kid in your building get a sticky dot? The sticky dots signifying a connection, that there's an adult is connected. And I think if we have kids that aren't, Those are the kids that tend to slip through and we lament after the fact. So every kid known by name and by need, if we could get there, I think we close a lot of the gaps we are seeing right now with the impact of trauma, with the impact of socioeconomic status, with the impact of

[26:03]

race, of gender, of sexuality, if every kid could just be known by name and need.

[26:09] SPEAKER_00:

So the book is Trauma Sensitive Instruction, Creating a Safe and Predictable Classroom Environment. Tom, if people would like to get in touch with you, learn more about your work, or talk about working with you, where are some of the best places for them to go online?

[26:22] SPEAKER_01:

My website, TomHirk.com is easy. T-Hirk at Gmail for anyone who wants to reach out. Twitter is just at T-Hirk. Facebook, LinkedIn, just first name, last name, Tom Hirk.

[26:35] SPEAKER_00:

Well, Tom, thank you so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio. It's been a pleasure. Thanks, Justin. What a treat.

[26:40] Announcer:

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