The Innocent Classroom: Dismantling Racial Bias to Support Students of Color

[00:01] SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high-performance instructional leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:15] SPEAKER_01:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to welcome back to the show my friend Alex Kajitani. We're here to talk about his new book, Owning It, Proven Strategies to Ace and Embrace Teaching.

[00:28] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:30] SPEAKER_01:

Alex, welcome back to Principal Center Radio.

[00:32] SPEAKER_02:

Always a pleasure to be back, Justin. Thank you so much. I am fired up to be here.

[00:36] SPEAKER_01:

Well, it is exciting to see what you're up to, to follow what you're up to, and see you speaking around the country. And I know we've connected in the past on Principal Center Radio talking about Multiplication Nation and some other projects that you have going on. But we now share a publisher. We are...

[00:54]

in the Solution Tree world. And I'm very excited to talk with you about that. What does it mean to own it? What does owning it mean?

[01:02] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, really, owning it just means embracing the struggles that we face as educators, you know, every single day, that really, we've got to own the challenges that we face and that we come across. And that means, again, we've got to embrace the struggles both in and out of our classroom. And And really find and implement real solutions that work. And so instead of shying away from controversies, from challenges, from difficulties, it's just the philosophy of being real about it, being authentic about it. and saying, hey, you know what, as a teacher, as an educator, as an administrator, I'm gonna own this challenge and I'm gonna find some solutions that work and then I'm gonna share those solutions with other people so it'll help them.

[01:46] SPEAKER_01:

And I love the attitude of, I guess I would just describe it as professionalism that comes through in that philosophy, because, you know, you and I both talk to educators around the country, around the world, and I don't know if this happens to you, but sometimes I will hear how something is done in a particular place, or I'll hear about something that has happened that is not okay, and I'll think, where did that come from? What, you know, what gap in that sense of professionalism caused that situation to occur. And I think that identity that we have as professionals is so critical. And you know, when we're working with teachers who have that professional identity, it shines through in everything. And I think that's a great kind of starting point philosophy, just to take responsibility to own the struggle and the challenges that we faced and be real.

[02:31] SPEAKER_02:

about them yeah absolutely i do believe that the work that we do as teachers you know is really the most important work that happens across the planet every single day and and so because it's such important work it's also really really challenging and so with owning it i really wanted teachers to have a collection of strategies that are easy to implement you know are highly effective but at the same time are really engaging for the students as well as for the teacher and then just like you said it at the same time teachers don't just spend all of their time teaching. You know, we collaborate with other teachers and administrators and we interact with parents and the general public. And and so, you know, owning it is really, really also a book about mastering our relationships with each other as colleagues. And it's kind of funny because I was working as a data coach in an elementary school or actually for the district.

[03:23]

And I'd go in and show teachers how to use data and how to how to read it, how to create lesson plans, you know, based on what they identified as needs. And I would go onto campuses, and as I was walking in, someone, a teacher or an administrator would pull me aside and say, hey, Alex, I know you're here to talk about data, but the teacher in room 13 is really having a conflict with the teacher in room 14. They're on the same team, but they haven't really talked to each other or gotten along for the past year and a half. Do you think you could go in and see if you could get them to start working together And so it really is fascinating how adult relationships play such a huge role in the success of a school. As we've all heard before, the most important factor in the success of a classroom is the teacher. But the most important factor in the success of an entire school really is the relationship of the adults in the building.

[04:18]

And so a huge part, a huge section of owning it really is devoted to mastering those adult relationships as what I call colleagues on campus.

[04:26] SPEAKER_01:

Well, thinking about some of the situations that I was called upon to kind of moderate as a principal or some of the things that I hear about from principals and assistant principals who are working with teachers who are having some of those challenges, what do you think is the starting point for working through a conflict? So when we have two teachers who, as you mentioned, you know, maybe are on the same team, but just are not getting along, maybe something has kind of come up. What's a good starting point for administrators in particular to think of? Because You know, I don't think any of us got into this business so that we could resolve, you know, grudges between grownups. But that is honestly a big part of the job and something that we all need help with. Right.

[05:06]

Something that, you know, we're all going to have people that we kind of rub the wrong way and step on each other's toes and all of those things. What are some good starting points for us?

[05:15] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you know, that's a great question. And first of all, what we really have to do, you know, whether we're in a formal leadership position or just, you know, just in any sort of leadership position is really we have to end what I call the silent conspiracy. Now, the silent conspiracy is really the unspoken agreement that happens, you know, often between a teacher and a student, which where the teacher kind of says, you know, if you just sit there and be quiet and do your work, I won't demand anything great out of you today. It becomes very easy to almost just start ignoring a student because they're doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing, because they're one of the quiet ones, because they're not causing any problems. And the same goes with adult relationships. It's very, very easy for adults or for managers or bosses to say, you know, As long as you just do your work and don't complain, you know, I'll make sure your performance reviews go fine or I'll make sure that, you know, you get the job assignments you want.

[06:14]

And so, you know, what a true leader does is ends that silent conspiracy. True leader is going to be somebody who takes, you know, a situation that, you know, maybe everybody knows about it but isn't saying it. Maybe people do know about it and aren't saying it. but really are going to basically bring things up. Now, of course, as leaders, we want to bring things up in a way that is respectful, in a way that's compassionate, and in a way that is effective and can move the work of the organization forward. And it's important to remember, conflict's not always a negative.

[06:48]

It can be really a a positive catalyst to, to really push us into new growth. And, you know, I also, in addition to working with schools and educators and speaking at education conferences, I actually go in and work with a lot of businesses and, and really for any successful organization, the conflict is sort of this inextricable link for those turning points to lead to that lead to success. And so I have in, in one of the chapters in owning it really a, what I've worked out to be a nine step process for, you know, addressing conflict, dealing with it. And so I won't run through, you know, all of them. But really, it starts with, you know, just first getting up the courage to approach somebody, you know, really, there's there's two kinds of conflicts, right? There's the kind of conflict that finds you right as a principal, maybe you're sitting in your office, And somebody knocks on your door and says, hey, can I talk to you for a second?

[07:40]

And they come in and they've got some sort of conflict or some sort of disagreement or some issue. But then there's the second kind of conflict, and that's the kind of conflict that we as leaders have to address proactively. And it starts with really just having that confidence to go in and say, you know, this might be a little bit painful, but I'm going to do this because there is a certain end result that I want. And so I heard this great story on the science blog. It was about a guy who was out in his backyard and he had been growing a bunch of milkweed in his backyard. And, you know, so the caterpillars were eating the milkweed.

[08:19]

And one morning he's out there drinking his coffee and He sees, you know, the cocoon or the chrysalis. It's hanging from one of the trees or the bushes. And it starts to shake. And this butterfly starts to kind of emerge. And he thinks, wow, this is fantastic. I'm going to see it right here.

[08:36]

I'm going to see this butterfly emerge. I'm going to see kind of the miracle of going from a caterpillar to a butterfly. And the butterfly, you know, its wings starts to poke out. And then all of a sudden it just stops. And for 20 minutes, it just sits there completely motionless. And he thinks, oh, no, you know, this this butterfly is going to die unless I help it.

[08:56]

And so he goes in and he gets these little medical scissors and he cuts open the cocoon. And this absolutely beautiful butterfly emerges. And he thinks, you know, I did it. I I really helped this butterfly. I can't wait to see it take flight. And the butterfly sits there and it sits there.

[09:13]

and it never flies. And what he learns later is that it was those uncomfortable moments of what seemed like stillness that the butterfly was really trying to bash itself out and gaining that wing strength that it needed in order to have the wing strength to continue to fly. And by going in and helping and really sort of cutting that open It had taken from the butterfly that opportunity. And that's what I see so often in education when a conflict arises. We're scared of what's going to happen if that person struggles. We're scared of what happens if there are uncomfortable moments.

[09:53]

And instead of focusing on the end result of what we want someone to become, we are focusing on what's happening in that moment. And as leaders, as teachers, as colleagues, if we have the ability, the sustenance to step back and say, okay, this might be uncomfortable for a while, but eventually, the person that I'm working with, it's not about what I want them to do, It's what I want them to become. And that, you know, is a really valuable skill to have. And so in the book and owning it, I really lay out step by step, you know, nine steps that anybody can go through when they need to approach a colleague with any sort of conflict.

[10:30] SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think that's such an important professional obligation for all of us, not just those who are in leadership positions, but, you know, teacher to teacher as well, colleague to colleague to say, you know, this is what we're here to do for students to maybe have some of those philosophical conversations or those practical conversations. You know, some of the best conflicts that I remember being a part of were those where a new agreement resulted. Like we made a decision about what we were going to do for kids that was a compromise to some people, but it was a raising of the bar to other people. And we needed to have that, you know, we needed to have that conversation.

[11:06] SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. And I know you're the guy who wrote the book on it, and I couldn't agree more. It's interesting also because I was speaking to a group of human resources executives last year at one of their conferences. And after my speech, I said to them, OK, what is it that you need? You're the people who hire and fire and train. We send you our final products from K-12 education.

[11:28]

Some of them go to college, but eventually they get to you. What is it you're seeing out there? Tell me what you need, and when I talk to educators, I'll tell them what you said, and one of the things that they said was so fascinating. They said, we need people who can work in a team, but here's the thing, they said, not a team, of their friends who they already like, who they already get along with. An actual team of people that we put together based on skill set and maybe they have different personalities and things like that, we need them to be able to work through conflicts in order to get the job done and move the work forward. So often they'll come to us in our HR office and they'll say, I don't really get along with this person.

[12:12]

We don't see eye to eye. Can I get on a different team or can I get off this team altogether? And it was fascinating to hear them really talk about, hey, here's what we need from our employees is this ability to work together, solve conflict, and get the job done. That's what we're constantly telling our students to do. And we've got to own that and be able to embrace it and learn how to do it ourselves as well. Again, nothing is more important to the success of a school than the relationship of the adults in the building.

[12:42]

And that is something that we absolutely have to be owning.

[12:45] SPEAKER_01:

And what about when there are generational divides? I know you talk in the book about those generation gaps that are often present where, you know, you might have some teachers who've been teaching for 25 years and colleagues on their team might have been alive for 25 years. We might have that big of a gap in experience and in terms of generations. So what are some ways that teachers can work together across those gaps?

[13:07] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, generational differences are really something that either divide us or really bring us together. And as I was saying earlier, one of my jobs in the past has been as a data coach. And it was also my job to go in and train people on our new assessment system. And so, you know, I'd go into different schools and, you know, during the staff meeting and I'd be all set up. And it was a new program, and there was a pretty decent learning curve, but it wasn't anything completely crazy or difficult. But you had to put some time in on the computer in order to learn how to use this computerized assessment program.

[13:41]

And sometimes I'd walk into schools, and sometimes a principal or someone would say to me, hey, we've got a real veteran staff. And they'd sort of raise their eyebrows at me. And I learned that was code for, you know, we have a staff that isn't very comfortable with the current technology. And so I think, okay, you know, no problem. I'm, you know, I'm this great presenter. I got this one covered, right?

[14:03]

And so I'd start doing my demonstration and you could kind of see this, you know, eyes start to glaze over and people start to sit crooked in their seats. And I think, Oh, no, you know, I'm losing them. And then meanwhile, you know, the new generation of teachers was click, click, click. They had it, you know, they had it covered because they were so comfortable with the technology. And so that's, I think, probably the biggest if it came down to one thing, the biggest divide that I see between generations of teachers is this ability and willingness to, you know, learn about technology. At the same time, as I see especially new teachers really struggling with classroom management so often, who do we send them to?

[14:44]

We send them to that veteran teacher. We send them to that teacher who's been doing it for years and has seen all these different personalities and situations come into their class, and they're absolute masters of classroom management. Really what it comes down to is coming to this agreement that, hey, we all have something to teach. We all have different skills, whether they're technical skills, whether they're social, emotional skills, whether they're just ability to read curriculum or teach curriculum skills. lesson planning, things like that. And so it's really, first of all, recognizing that, and then bringing our teachers together and saying, okay, we're going to team teachers who are comfortable with technology up with those who aren't.

[15:27]

This is a great teaching opportunity. Next week, we're going to be really working on classroom management. And so the teachers who are excellent at that, who are really effective at that, are going to really be mentoring the ones who aren't. And so again, it's, it's first of all, recognizing it, you know, you can even do fun games at staff meetings, things like that about, you know, I saw one at one staff meeting, they did a life trivia where they looked at different events that were very, you know, monumental in the lives of different generations and they shared them with each other. They asked, you know, other generations what they knew about that and ended up just being kind of a, you know, a really fun game. But again, it's, We're not going to bring different generations of teachers together until we recognize that those generations exist and really start to help each other again.

[16:14]

Owning it is not just embracing our problems and our challenges. It's embracing them, it's finding solutions, and above all, sharing them with each other. That's when we're really owning it.

[16:26] SPEAKER_01:

Well, I wonder, Alex, if we could jump into the classroom a little bit more, because in some ways, I feel like your book is in the spirit of Harry Wong. And I know he actually wrote the, is it the foreword or the introduction to the book?

[16:38] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, he wrote the foreword. I was really excited about that.

[16:41] SPEAKER_01:

That's impressive because I think it's the one book, you know, there are lots of books that a lot of people have a copy of, but The First Days of School by Harry Wong is the one book that like all educators have three copies of because you buy it for yourself and then somebody gives it to you and then you get it as your new teacher gift. And I know that those specifics and those kind of routines and procedures that Harry Wong talks about have influenced generations of teachers now, myself included, and have made a huge difference in the effectiveness of their classrooms. And it's great to see you highlighting some of those same key areas that are just so high leverage. And I think it's a great honor and great to see that Harry Wong is endorsing your book and putting a word in there. But take us into the classroom. What are some of the big high leverage points that you talk about in owning it?

[17:26] SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. It's funny because I'll tell you really quickly, I asked Dr. Wong once, I said, hey, why do you think that you've sold so many books? His book has been sold millions of copies in all sorts of different languages. I said, why do you really think that you've sold so many books? I'll never forget, he looked me right in the eye, he said, because it works.

[17:47]

And I thought, wow, you know, what a simple yet transformative answer to give, you know, is his stuff works. And it's worked over the years for so many different teachers at all subjects and levels. And so with owning it, you know, really the book is like we talked about is divided into four parts. And so. you know, the third part talks about, you know, colleague relationships, and the fourth part talks about how to be public professionals. But really, the first part gives teachers those easy to implement strategies that, you know, they can use to connect with and engage with students and really ensure that all of their students learn.

[18:24]

And so the second part of the book addresses, you know, what every teacher has found is, you know, basically 20% of our students seem to take up 80% of our attention and our time. And so, Those are the students that frustrate us the most. And yet at the same time, those are also the students that happen to need us the most. And so how do we connect with them in a way that's genuine and real so that they also can learn and have access to the academic content that they need? In order to be successful. And so when I originally started writing each of the parts for this book, I basically, you know, I'd say, OK, what is a challenge that I am facing or what is a challenge that we're talking about in the teacher's lounge or on our way out to our cars in the parking lot?

[19:06]

And I'd identify a specific challenge. And then I'd do some research and I'd talk to the best teachers that I could find. And I'd come up with some solutions. And then I'd try them out. And then I would tweak them based on my experiences, on the experiences of others and things like that. Until we got them to the point where they were just right.

[19:24]

Until we knew that they were effective and that they worked. This book, owning it is really, you know, a collection of those strategies that really worked. And so to give you a specific example, one of the strategies that we really talk about that works for all teachers is this need to be what I call visible, right? We need to be highly visible teachers at all times, not just when our students are sitting in front of us. But all around campus and even when the students, when we're not even at school. And so I'll give you some examples of some specific strategies that I love to share with teachers.

[20:01]

In order to be highly visible, there are things like greeting the students at the door. That's huge. That's very important. I call that the number one classroom management strategy of all time, basically. But here are some other ones. What I always encourage teachers to do, there's one great strategy that I love.

[20:17]

It's called the honk and wave, right? And so it's happened to everybody. You're driving to school, right? You're stopped at a red light. Maybe you're a block or two from your school. And across the street, you see one of your students.

[20:29]

don't miss this opportunity, right? Turn off your music, roll down the window, you know, honk the horn, beep, beep, and lean out the window and, hey, Grisela, hey, how you doing? Okay, I'll see you soon at school. Yeah, I'll see you in just a moment, right? What we do, though, is we're creating the impression in our students' mind that we are visible to them, not just when we're in class, but when they're walking to school. I don't know if this happened to anybody else, but it's 7.30 in the morning, you're driving to school, and you see a student walking away from school, right?

[21:04]

Nothing can be more powerful. Roll down your window and say, hey, turn around, get back to school. I mean, I can't prove it, but I believe nothing good has ever come from a student walking away from school at 730 in the morning. You get them to turn around. First of all, there's no way they're ditching your class, but you get them to turn around and go back to school. You might change the trajectory of their entire day.

[21:27]

I mean, you might change the trajectory of their entire life. depending on what they were walking away from school to do. And so things like that really, really important. Also, you know, walking across campus, I just say hi to everybody. I look them in the eye. I wave to them.

[21:42]

It doesn't mean that I stop and have a big, long conversation with them. But just saying hi, making sure that you see your students and that your students see you and that they know that you see them. What I've also learned is sometimes when we say hi to a kid in the morning, That's the first time an adult has recognized them or acknowledged them since they left school the day before. And so saying hello to people is one of the most visible, most powerful things that we can possibly do. Before I was a teacher, I was a restaurant manager. And I mean, that's an entire industry built on just saying hello to people.

[22:20]

then I got to education I couldn't believe the amount of adults especially who you know coffee in one hand notebook in the other charging off to class and just weren't looking up and saying hi to each other and so you know saying hi is just one of the easiest most effective ways that we can own it as adults on campus connect with our kids and really again get them engaged keep them engaged the level of engagement that we have with our kids is outside of class directly affects how engaged and attentive they are inside of our class. And that goes for all students.

[22:54] SPEAKER_01:

So Alex, I really appreciate your point about seeing kids out in the community, being visible, building that bridge, you know, saying hi, making eye contact, greeting them at the door. And I feel like there's a connection with something else that you're big on. The idea of paying attention to what's going on in the classroom, paying attention to the details, even paying attention to the trash on the floor. Talk to us about that conscientiousness and that kind of, you know, eyes in the back of the head, seeing everything and being even maybe a little strict on some of those things.

[23:22] SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. That's one of my favorite lessons. So basically what I do is at the end of the class, you know, I tell the students, hey, This floor was spotless when you walked in. It needs to be spotless when you walked out. Again, it's my restaurant manager training coming back in. I mean, think about it.

[23:36]

If you walk into a restaurant and the dining room floor is absolutely filthy, I'm telling you right now, get out of there. You don't even want to know what the kitchen looks like. But it's a really important classroom management tool as well as it helps to create the culture of the classroom, right? I turn it into a math lesson. I teach everybody about radius. I say, okay, everybody here has a three-foot radius around their desk, and it's just like your front yard.

[24:02]

If a piece of trash blows into your front yard, it really doesn't matter who threw it there. What matters is there's a piece of trash in your front yard. You got to go pick it up and clean your front yard. It's your front yard. And so what happens is the students, they start to manage each other, right? A piece of trash or something falls on the ground, they say, hey, that's in my front yard.

[24:22]

Pick it up, right? And so they start to really talk to each other and manage each other. And at the same time, we are creating the culture and the expectation that this is a room that should be respected. This is a floor that should be respected. As I've sometimes heard, how you do something is how you do everything. Or some people say, how you do anything is how you do everything.

[24:45]

And so if you're the teacher who insists on a clean floor, if you're the teacher who insists that the students respect everything that happens in that three-foot radius around them, and of course, hopefully beyond, then it goes without saying that you are also the teacher that expects absolutely the most and the highest levels of excellence and performance. from the teachers. And so, you know, I will also say not every year that I've had has been, you know, this stellar, amazing year. I remember once I had just absolutely, you know, one of the most challenging years of my life of teaching. My eighth year of teaching, you know, I got assigned what teachers would call VAT. class, right?

[25:28]

And as educators, we've all had that class. And of course, what was worse, I had just been named California Teacher of the Year. And so everybody wanted to come in and observe me and say, oh, what's this guy doing in his class? And they'd come in and out of all my classes, they always chose to come into that class, right? And they'd walk out shaking their heads going, you know, what's up with that? That dude's not that good.

[25:49]

And so, you know, at that point, I really knew I had to own this and find some real solutions. And that's how this whole visibility thing came about was I really had to find some solutions that I could implement in order to turn my class around. And I know, I know that all of the strategies that in owning it work because one day I got the ultimate compliment in classroom management. They were actually good for a substitute teacher. Usually I'd walk into my class after having a sub and I'd think, oh man, I don't even want to see what the note says. I walked in one day, I picked up the note, it said, Mr. Kajitani, thank you so much for allowing me to be in your classroom.

[26:27]

Your classes were wonderful. Call me anytime you need help. And I was so stunned. I turned to the girl next to me. I said, read this note. And she read it.

[26:36]

She said, yeah, why? I said, why were you so good for a sub? She said, are you kidding? You'll bust us if we throw a piece of trash on the floor. There's no way we're going to be disrespectful to a sub. And that's when I knew, you know, visibility is important.

[26:51]

everything when it comes to creating a culture where students achieve at the highest levels. I mean, we have a lot of fun in my class. We do wacky things. And again, not every single day goes absolutely perfect. But when we are as teachers, as leaders, highly visible, then first of all, what it does is it eliminates a large majority of the issues or the off-task issues that might happen and really allows us to get focused, to stay focused when they know, hey, my teacher's watching me at all times.

[27:28] SPEAKER_01:

You know, and I think the same goes at the school level when it comes to principals. You know, we like to say, you know, pick your battles and, you know, manage your time effectively. But the truth is that visibility, those relationships, getting into classrooms, knowing what's going on. I mean, that's true at all levels, right? It's true for superintendents. It's true for principals.

[27:46]

It's true for teachers. And I just love the philosophy and I love the practicality as well.

[27:52] SPEAKER_02:

I think it's absolutely true, especially for school leaders. I bumped into a colleague of mine who I taught with at a school, and I said, hey, how's it going? How's the new principal? And she said, I don't know. We never see him. Now, this principal could be in his office or her office doing the most amazing things ever.

[28:11]

But if the teachers don't see him, with low visibility doesn't really mean a whole lot, doesn't really add much to the culture of the school. I also had a principal who, you know, I never saw him walk by a piece of trash that he didn't stop and pick up because he knows, you know, any piece of trash on the ground is a reflection of the culture of the school and he owned it, a reflection of his leadership. And so there's no way he was going to walk by a piece of trash without picking it up. And The same goes for our classrooms and the presence that we have when we are in front of every single one of our students every single day.

[28:49] SPEAKER_01:

So the book is Owning It, Proven Strategies to Ace and Embrace Teaching. And Alex, if people want to learn more about your work, follow you online, get in touch with you, where's the best place for them to go?

[29:00] SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. The best place is my website, alexkajitani.com. That's A-L-E-X-K-A-J-I.com. T-A-N-I dot com.

[29:11]

I've got a whole bunch of resources on there. I love to keep teachers and educators motivated all year long, so love to post really cool things on social media. On all the channels, you can find me at Alex Kajitani. Again, that's at Alex Kajitani. And I return every email ever intentionally sent to me. So please, you can reach out to me through my website.

[29:33]

I love to speak to educators. Like we talked about, I'm traveling all around the country and would love to take any opportunity to talk to anybody listening about coming in. motivating their teachers and giving them real practical strategies that they can implement immediately so that we can all be owning it.

[29:51] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I would definitely recommend that people check out your website, check out some of the videos on your website of different presentations and TEDx talks that you've given and professional development at big school districts around the country. And I think Katie Couric did a little bit on your rapping mathematician

[30:07] SPEAKER_02:

That's right. Yeah, that was a great time. Yeah, yeah. That was back when I was a new teacher, I was really struggling to get the students to pay attention. And so I started rapping about the math lessons that I was teaching. And long story short, we ended up creating a bunch of rap music songs and videos in order to help engage kids in math.

[30:25]

And those videos are, you know, have, I think, received combined millions of views on YouTube and are being used all over the world to engage students in math. And Katie Kerr came in with the CBS Evening News and did a story on that. And now those, you know, the CDs and videos have now turned into online programs, as I got to talk about last time on your show. I'm now on a mission to help every kid master their times tables. So we created MultiplicationNation.com, which is really the first of its kind interactive online program for kids to master their times tables and we had a great time and at the end of the show Katie Couric said I love that guy and so sometimes I'll still be walking through an airport or something and somebody will walk by me and say hey I remember you Katie Couric said she loves you and so that was just a good time and just a great way again to really get kids engaged and thinking about the math.

[31:20] SPEAKER_01:

Well, Alex, I'm so glad we had the opportunity to speak again. We'll put the link to your website and the link to our previous interview in the show notes, as well as the link to Multiplication Nation. But again, the book is Owning It, Proven Strategies to Ace and Embrace Teaching. Alex Kajitani, thank you so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio.

[31:40] SPEAKER_02:

It has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks for the work that you're doing and the leadership that you're owning. And I am always honored to be with you, Justin.

[31:49] Announcer:

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