Improving Teacher Morale & Motivation: Leadership Strategies that Build Student Success

[00:01] Announcer:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, helping you build capacity for instructional leadership. Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center, Dr. Justin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:13] SPEAKER_01:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to welcome back to the program Dr. Barbara Blackburn. Barbara Blackburn, PhD, has dedicated her life to raising the level of rigor and motivation for professional educators and students alike. The author of more than 30 books and selected multiple times as one of the top 30 global gurus in education. Dr. Blackburn has taught at all levels and holds a doctorate in curriculum and teaching from the University of North Carolina at Greensboro.

[00:43]

And she holds the questionable distinction of being our number one guest here on Principal Center Radio, but it is always a pleasure to have you on the program, Barbara. And we're here today to talk about your new book with Ron Williamson, Improving Teacher Morale and Motivation, Leadership Strategies that Build Student Success.

[01:04] Announcer:

And now our feature presentation.

[01:06] SPEAKER_00:

Oh, it is so great to be here. And I do not think that is a dubious distinction. I'm quite honored to know that. So that is great. And I will tell you that this book is number 34. So I know I love to write and I love, particularly with leaders, I love writing with Ron Williamson because he's such an expert in the area.

[01:25] SPEAKER_01:

Well, I'm excited about this book because it brings such an important set of ideas to the forefront for people in an accessible way, especially when it comes to thinking about the psychology that goes into adult motivation. So this book is all about teacher morale and motivation. Often we think about student morale and motivation. What prompted you and Ron to write this book about teacher morale and motivation?

[01:48] SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think two things. I had been doing work with teachers about student morale and motivation. I had been doing that. I've got a book on that. So I've been working with that, had even done a parent book on that. So I'd been working with motivation and Ron and I were talking about what do we want our next book to be?

[02:05]

You know, particularly coming out of the pandemic, you know, what really is something we want to do? And this notion of everybody seems so demoralized for a variety of reasons, whether it's our current climate or it's the pandemic or just the state of teaching or the extra challenges with students. And we said, that's got to be it. There's nothing else that we can write about right now. It's got to be that. So we were able to really pull together students.

[02:33]

what we know about leadership, what we know about morale and motivation, and really put that together. And we did want just something that would be a quick how-to guide for principals. It's not a book that you're going to have to read over two or three weeks. It's not designed to be.

[02:48] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I think one thing that readers will appreciate is the survey of a set of ideas that need to work together. Because often if we're taking an undergraduate or graduate educational psychology course or leadership course, these ideas are often spread out over multiple courses, multiple books, separated in time. And I love the way that you've put them all together to help us see how they fit together. And in thinking about motivation, one place you start is Maslow. Why do you start with Maslow early on in the book? Because often we think hierarchy of needs, sleep and things like that.

[03:20]

What does that have to do with teacher motivation?

[03:22] SPEAKER_00:

You know, what's interesting is, in addition to the fact that Maslow has been around forever, so as soon as you say Maslow, people know who you're talking about. When you really go back and look at his work, it is foundational. You know, we want to jump into how can I get a teacher motivated to go the extra mile with students? But you know what? If they don't have basic needs met, then they're not gonna get there. I mean, I can remember my first year of teaching and I had people telling me all of these wonderful ideas and all of these wonderful things.

[03:54]

And you know what? I just wanted my room to be set up. And I wanted to know that I had enough copy paper to run what I needed to, to get started the next day. And that I had my textbooks organized. That's Maslow. You know, that's what he talks about is there's basic things, survival needs being the base, that if you don't get to those first, then nothing else matters.

[04:16]

So for example, if your teachers don't feel like they have a safe environment to come into, you're not going to make much difference on anything else because they need to feel safe walking into your building. And I remember that from one of my graduate students. She actually, at the end of a school day, found a notebook and students had passed the notebook around writing death threats about her. Just unbelievable. I couldn't believe she still came to my graduate class that night. And, you know, so really gave me some time with her.

[04:43]

And we called her principal because she had not told the principal yet. And I said, you can't go to school tomorrow with her not knowing that. So the principal made sure that somebody was there at the same time that my student was going to be there, walked her into the building, went into her classroom first and checked and made sure it was safe, did all these kinds of things. And you might be going, well, those are just really basic. You know what? They made it safe.

[05:06]

for my student to teach the next day. And that's what I'm saying. You can't get to the higher levels until you do the lower levels and that's Maslow. So that's why we start with it.

[05:16] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And I think it lacks appeal on the innovative side. Like it's not exciting to take care of the basics. It's not exciting to make sure you have a clean building that doesn't have rats or mold and that you have copy paper and that the you know, the air conditioning works and things like that. The boring stuff isn't going to win you any innovation awards, but it makes a huge difference for how people feel about their work. And I feel like we're in this interesting position as a profession where, you know, we're used to asking people to do hard things, right?

[05:48]

We're used to asking people to overcome challenging circumstances, but that doesn't eliminate the reality of that hierarchy of basic needs.

[05:57] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to explain how important some of those basic things are. The very first principal I ever worked for, I was finishing out the school year, I had I took the job really because of him. I was so impressed with him. But one of the things that I liked about him was it's a really old school building. I mean, it was not anywhere you'd walk in and go, wow, I want a teacher.

[06:20]

It was a very old building. But he had sectioned off the walls and students each got a section of the wall and they painted the wall. So you had all of these great kid art. You had a kid art gallery around it. And I remember because I only finished the school year out and then went somewhere else. And he left a couple of years later.

[06:39]

And the first thing the maintenance department did in that school when he left was paint it beige. I just remember thinking, you know, they didn't get it. They didn't get that what that was about was saying to everybody, no matter what, no matter how old this building is, we're about kids. And it is little things like that that can make a difference. And they do make a difference. You smiled every time you went in the building when you looked at the kids' artwork.

[07:05]

People want to feel good about where they are.

[07:07] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Let's talk a little bit more about motivation. You have just a great explanation of the relationship between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. And I laughed a little bit when you compared, because I was drinking my coffee at the time. I laughed a little bit when you compared extrinsic motivation to coffee, because it gets us going. But talk a little bit about extrinsic motivation and its relationship to intrinsic motivation and what we have to watch out for when using extrinsic motivation.

[07:32] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you know, extrinsic motivation is certainly very popular. That's all of the ways we externally motivate teachers. And that is everything from teacher evaluations. to salaries, to bonuses, to giving them a certificate or a free lunch period. I mean, it's anything that's extrinsic. And we use them because people like them and they seem to work.

[07:57]

What the research shows, though, and there's less of this with teachers and adults than there is with students, but there is some with adults. What the research shows is The extrinsic can work, but it typically only works short term. So it's like your coffee. You've got caffeine in it and you drink it and it jacks you up, but then you crash. And so that's sort of what extrinsic motivation is. It'll work short term, but then there's a crash and people want more.

[08:25]

So we have to be careful. with it. Another piece of research that's out there is that extrinsic with adults and students works better with rote task. So, for example, if you need teachers to do a whole bunch of extra paperwork, that's when you want to extrinsically reward them, okay? If they're going to have to stay late and do paperwork, then bring in pizzas, okay? That totally works because they are having to do something that's rote, that's mindless, but extrinsic is not as good when you want them to, for example, create more rigorous lessons or create a more rigorous environment for students to learn.

[09:01]

Those are tougher to do because first of all, you can't define them quite as well all the time. even though I work hard to do that. But that's just not something that works as well. And so you can do extrinsic, but two things will happen. One, people want more and more. So if I give you pizza this time, you want pizza and dessert next time.

[09:23]

And then the next time you're going to want even more than that. The other thing is you're going to start wanting it for everything. So I do rewards because I need you to do some paperwork. Well, great. The next time I ask you just to do real small paperwork, you still want a reward because you got a reward last time. So you have to be careful.

[09:40]

Now, having said that, I am not totally against extrinsic rewards. There are people who are. Alphacon, if you're an Alphacon fan, you don't want extrinsic at all. But I believe they can be helpful. I just think you have to be really careful about when and how you use them. So you do need to carefully determine when you're going to use them and they need to be random.

[10:01]

So, for example, one of the principals I work for, he got these really large paper clips with the name of our school on them and the logo. And they were the perfect size for clipping together 30 sheets of paper. OK, so it's perfect for clipping together a set of paper. And he would keep them in his pocket and he would just randomly give them out. You never knew when it was going to happen. You know, it's just whatever.

[10:22]

And it was great. And that worked really well, but he didn't do it. You didn't feel like you were jumping through a hoop to get it. It wasn't do this and then you'll get the paperclip and do this and then you'll get the paperclip. It wasn't that. So random tends to be better and rote task tend to be better with extrinsic, knowing that you've already got a system of extrinsic between bonuses and salaries and evaluations.

[10:47]

You've automatically got that.

[10:49] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I feel like sometimes our critiques of extrinsic motivation go a little too far. It would be incorrect to say that salary doesn't matter, right? And salary is one of those more extrinsic things. It's not probably why anybody went into teaching, but it would be a huge mistake to say, well, salary doesn't matter. We'll just pay people whatever we can and not worry about it. They're going to worry about it, right?

[11:10]

That's a real working condition that determines whether somebody takes a different job, leaves the field entirely, or sticks with us. And we can't just pass that out.

[11:18] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I will tell you, I'm going to stop you because I would say that goes back to Maslow because that's safety. My salary provides safety and security for me and my family. So it is extrinsic, but that one ties really, really strongly to Maslow. It's why I don't I am not a throw out all extrinsic motivation. I don't ever want anybody to hear me say that because I'm not.

[11:40]

Salary is very important. And generally, unless you are in a unique situation, you are underpaid. OK, and that's teachers and that's leaders. So generally, I feel like you're underpaid. And I do feel like that becomes a basic thing. Bonuses, I think sometimes are the best we can do to try to bump something up.

[11:58]

We may not be able to bump up a salary, but maybe we can somehow find money for a bonus. Okay, I'm for that. I really am. Because again, I think that goes to the basics. That may put gas in somebody's car for an extra three tanks, you know, whatever you need to make it work. So I really believe that taking a hard line against it does a disservice to who we are as a community.

[12:20] SPEAKER_01:

I appreciate your comments, Barbara, about the random nature. If I get donuts on the way to work and put them in the staff lounge and say, hey, everybody, hope you're having a great week. There are donuts in the staff lounge. That's a different feel from saying, OK, good doggie, you turned your grades in on time. Here's a donut. Just the feel of it matters so much.

[12:39]

And people like being in a situation where they do get those kind of occasional nice things. I've never heard anybody say, I don't like there to be food at work. I don't like when people surprise us with nice things. But people do feel very insulted when they don't have the basics. And then it feels like there's some sort of bribe to overlook that, right? When the Maslow's Pyramid is intact, there's a whole different feel to all that nice stuff that serves as kind of a little bonus or a little extra.

[13:08] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and we don't think about that in professions other than teaching, other than education, a lot of those things are already in place. I remember when I first left teaching to be a consultant and at my church, there were a bunch of us out to lunch and they were complaining about teachers, which was not a good thing to do in front of me. They later regretted bringing up that topic in front of me. But what they didn't understand was that things that are just...

[13:31]

whether you're working for the state government or for businesses, having coffee that is accessible, being able to go to the bathroom when you want to go to the bathroom, you know, having things like donuts brought in regularly, those kinds of things happen all the time. in many, many, many businesses. But they're like a huge deal if they happen in teaching because it's like, well, are you sure? Do they really deserve that? And we wouldn't think anything about donuts, cookies. I just took cookies.

[14:02]

My mom has Alzheimer's and is in a memory care facility. I just took some cookies over there for the staff. They work hard. They deserve somebody saying thank you every once in a while. I'm not trying to bribe them, but I'm going to say thank you every once in a while. Where did we get the idea that shouldn't happen in education because it's extrinsic motivation?

[14:21]

I really think extrinsic and intrinsic need to work together. And we just need to be careful with the extrinsic.

[14:28] SPEAKER_01:

Let's talk a little bit more about intrinsic motivation because we certainly want to maximize our opportunities on the intrinsic side. We want to have people who are motivated to do their very best. And certainly we've seen that motivation fluctuate, right? When people get demoralized, we realize...

[14:45]

how much they were intrinsically motivated. You know, when we see people lose that intrinsic motivation, we see, oh, wow, like we really get a lot of mileage out of people's intrinsic motivation and education because this is a people business. This is a caring business. So help us think better about intrinsic motivation. Set that up for us.

[15:03] SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think, first of all, that first For most teachers, I hate to make generalizations, but I think I'm going to on this one. For most teachers, they are intrinsically motivated because people don't get into education for money. That's just not what they do. So I think there's a lot of intrinsic motivation about wanting to make a difference that's built in to start with. What happens is a lot of times teaching...

[15:27]

It's just there's so many things going on and it's so overwhelming that some of that intrinsic motivation tends to wane. So I like to go back to the basics with this and say, OK, what is intrinsic motivation made up of? And I think there's two big factors, value and success. And so value is, do I see value in what I'm doing? So that, of course, is do I see value in teaching? But it's also things like if you as a principal have a professional development, I come in with what's the value of this for me?

[16:01]

You know, why should I care about this? And if you are doing a professional development on. teaching strategies and everything is high school oriented and I'm a kindergarten teacher, I walk out of there going, that was a waste of my time. And I wasn't intrinsically motivated when I was in there. And I'm certainly not intrinsically motivated to use it when I get out. So that's why you want consultants who do make sure they know who your audience is and they give examples at all grade levels and all subjects.

[16:27]

But it's also more than just, do I see the value that way? Teachers value autonomy. You know, they partly got into teaching Because they don't want to be told everything they're doing. They want to be able to be creative, to figure out what to do and how to do it. And so we've really got to pay attention to that autonomy, whether it is their teaching, but also their collaboration. So it may be that I do want my grade levels working together to collaborate, to create lessons, because it's going to help them in the long run.

[16:58]

I still want to give them some autonomy with that, which may be, OK, we've come up with a common schedule and a common lesson plan. But just know you can veer off that a little bit if you need to, because you know what's best for your students. Teachers want that autonomy. That's a really big deal. And then teachers value relationships. They value their relationships with other teachers, but they particularly value their relationship with you.

[17:22]

So if you think about a teacher you've had who's been a problem for you, I'll bet you you didn't have a good relationship with them. And if you think about the teachers that you have good relationships with, it's pretty easy to work with them. You know, you may have something every once in a while, but it's pretty easy. So with value, we've got to look at the relevance of everything we're doing. We've got to look at the autonomy that we're providing. And we've got to look at the relationships both with us and with others.

[17:48]

And so that's the first part of intrinsic. All of those things intrinsically motivate teachers. Now, the other part is that teachers are motivated by success. I am more motivated as a teacher if I'm successful. And one of the challenges that happens in teaching is that if I fail, I fail very publicly because I fail in front of all the kids who are going to go tell all the other kids who are also going to tell all the parents who are going to tell all the other parents. So I'm very tied up in success.

[18:17]

I want to feel like I'm successful. So that's why I say here's a good way to use intrinsic and extrinsic together. Okay. I need to feel successful. That's intrinsic. One of the things you can do that's going to help me feel that way, it's not going to make me feel that way, but it's going to help me feel that way, is when you tell me what I'm doing right.

[18:36]

So always tell teachers what they're doing right. Always tell teachers what they're doing right. Like one of my favorite, favorite examples, we probably did it in one of the first podcasts that we did together, was name it, claim it, and explain it. Which is, as you are out and around in the building, grab a video or a picture of something a teacher's doing right. And it doesn't have to be a big deal. It can be a little deal.

[18:57]

That's okay. grab a picture of it. And every time you do a meeting, you open your meeting with that picture. Tell the teacher ahead of time so they know what's coming. Don't scare them. But you throw it up there and you say to all the other teachers, you know what?

[19:08]

This is an example of something great that is going on in our school. I want whoever it belongs to name it, claim it as yours and explain to us what you were doing. And if you don't want to do it during a meeting, do it with an email because you can send an email out to all faculty. Same thing. They just have to reply to all and name it, claim it and explain it. And the idea of celebrating good things that teachers are doing.

[19:31]

And what you'll have teachers say is, well, I didn't realize that was a big deal. Yeah, it was. It was a big deal. It made a difference to kids. You know, it can be something little. I was in a social studies classroom with a principal who the teacher was teaching the equator and had drawn a circle for the earth and out beside it had written equator.

[19:49]

But we went in the next room and the teacher had drawn the circle and drawn the equator and written the word equator right on it. So that the kids would remember that that's what the equator was. That is tiny. And some of you listening are going, that is not a big deal. Yes, it is. At least one student remembered the equator better because of that.

[20:07]

And I absolutely celebrate. I made him take a picture. I said, go in there, take a picture. We're showing it at the meeting this afternoon because it was such a good example. And I remember he was surprised. He said, I just think about celebrating big things.

[20:20]

No, celebrate little things because little things help teachers feel successful, which is intrinsic motivation. So that's a really good way to blend the two and doesn't cost you any money. I love things that don't cost any money. So how does that sound for intrinsic motivation?

[20:36] SPEAKER_01:

I love it because you answered the question with lots of practical specifics, but you also snuck in all of the tenets of self-determination theory. I think our astute listener will pick up on the key elements of self-determination theory, which we talk about quite frequently at the Principal Center because it's so central to understanding what people value in professional work, especially, and how they become intrinsically motivated. And it's not with The treats, it's not those extrinsic things. It's ultimately what drives people when they have those conditions, when they can be successful, when they feel valued, when they feel connected to other people. I love it. And I love the way you just kind of snuck that in there without even saying that that's what you were doing.

[21:15]

So Barbara, I wanted to ask about this idea of success. And working in challenging schools, because I would say almost everybody works in a somewhat challenging school right now. You know, maybe because of the way housing patterns work, we have some schools that maybe would not be considered challenging. But I think, you know, most educators work in what they would consider to be a somewhat challenging school. And that can threaten our sense of success, right? If we have students who are experiencing difficulty in their lives, we can teach the same lesson that would have worked just fine in another school and just encounter a lot less success with it because our students have greater needs.

[21:49]

And you talk in chapter three about school reputation. And we face, I think, a lot of challenges in more challenging schools because we don't necessarily pay more and teachers experience less success, right? Students come in just dealing with more in their lives. Learning is more difficult. Maybe they come in reading below grade level. Help us think about how we can have a thriving school culture and motivated teachers who when it is more difficult than perhaps in the school across town?

[22:22] SPEAKER_00:

It's interesting because I spent six or seven years of my teaching. I was in a junior high school. That was back before middle school. So I've just dated myself. But I was in a junior high school. And after the first year, the principal asked me, I did not know at the time what I was getting myself into because I was a two and a half year teacher.

[22:42]

But I ended up taking a class that was labeled developmental. So I taught an attract system. So they had advanced, they had regular, they had developmental, they had special ed. What we know now is half the kids I had would have been labeled special ed. Okay. We just didn't know enough then.

[22:58]

So I had developmental. So they're not smart enough to be in the regular class, but they're not bad enough to be in the special ed class. And that's what I have. So I actually taught in a class that had the reputation you're talking about because everybody's like, oh, I'm really sorry. You've got that class. You know, I actually thought that I had been rewarded as a first year teacher.

[23:21]

I'd done such a good job. I'd gotten rewarded by being assigned. I didn't know that it was considered punishment and that nobody else took it. But I had a reputation. The parents all knew, oh, yeah, you're having to teach those kids. I'd be in the grocery store and somebody say something.

[23:33]

The kids all knew it. They were all like, yeah, we know we're in the dumb class. And I was like, we do not use that word in my classroom. And I will tell you that what I did, I was just flat out determined. to ignore all of that. I made my classroom the brightest, prettiest classroom on the hall.

[23:49]

Anytime I needed something extra, I went up and asked the principal for it and he'd go, I don't know if I've got that funding. I'd go, you know, now you asked me to do this and you told me if there was anything I needed. Like I remember wanting to use a newspaper in class. Well, where I lived, everybody used the Charlotte Observer. Well, what I wanted to do was use USA Today, which was brand new at the time, cost a quarter and was all in color. It was like the only newspaper that had color.

[24:15]

And the thing was, that helped turn my reputation around with the kids because they're like, my gosh. you're getting us something nicer than everybody else. And, you know, we can read about who won the NBA game last night. I mean, it was like, we're not going to be the dumb class. We're not going to be the bad class. We're going to be the cool class.

[24:32]

And I just was going to do everything I could to make that happen. And I would not allow them to use words that were negative. I was very intentional about paying attention to positive things. And I think that's where I'm going to pull out and say, OK, if I'm in a school, OK, one, I want to do the most I can do just to say, you know what? I'm going to prove you all wrong. You may you may tell me I have this reputation, but I'm going to prove you wrong.

[24:53]

You got to have a little bit of that kind of attitude. I think you do. But I'm also going to do things like I'm going to every single day as a teacher. I'm going to write down three things that were good that happened with my kids. And if I can't come up with three, I'm going to write down two. And the third one's going to be I made it through the day.

[25:08]

If I'm a principal, every single meeting we do, we're going to take the first two minutes. Everybody's going to turn to a partner and tell them one good thing that happened that day in class. And then we're going to share out three examples. I am going to push the positive like crazy. If I've got mailboxes, then I'm going to post stories of good things that I'm seeing. I'm going to post those pictures that I'm using in the name of claiming and explain it.

[25:30]

I'm going to just surround my teachers. with positive, and there's still going to be the negative, and there's still going to be a lot of challenges, but I'm going to at least try to make it not like quicksand, you know, where I can at least keep you level instead of having you pull down, and those are the things I did in my classroom, and I absolutely would do those things as a principal in a school today, and I'm going to Oh, I'm also going to, this is like a whole different book. We did this in advocacy from A to Z. I'm going to promote out in the community. I'm going to get good things happening out in the community. Newsletters, I'm going to get them on Nextdoor.

[26:05]

I'm going to get them on Facebook. I'm going to, whatever you do when you don't tweet anymore, when you X, you know, I'm going to do whatever you got to do. I'm going to get good news out all day. over the place. And I'm going to communicate with the people who do newsletters. Like our town has a newsletter.

[26:21]

Boy, if we did, if we were doing something great, I'd see if they'd put it in their newsletter. I just had that happen this morning, actually, with my church. I'm in charge of a new virtual group at church. And we did an activity and came up with something. And I called the lady at church, the secretary, to say, look, can you look at this for me? Can you maybe add to it and maybe put it in the newsletter next month?

[26:39]

And she said, you know what? I'm working on the weekly newsletter right now and I'm working on the monthly newsletter tomorrow. You get it to me in the next 30 minutes and I'll have it in both of them. Oh, my gosh. So you build those connections as a leader. And so you make sure you go to the school board meeting every time and say something positive about your kids, because otherwise they're just going to think you're the bad school.

[27:01]

So you you go promote the heck out of what you're doing. And don't tell me you can't find something good because you can find something good. You can find something good. You may have to look for it and your teachers may have to start looking for it, but you can find something good. And now say you've got me on a soapbox.

[27:17] SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Well, I love it because I feel like we really have to make it an honor to work in the tougher schools, right? It can't just be, Oh, you drew the short straw. You got the short end of the stick. You know, like we have to deliberately point out how it is an honor and make the working conditions in, you know, the tougher schools doable for teachers. Cause I think that's where the rubber has to meet the road.

[27:41]

We can't just say nice things. We also have to make the working conditions viable and not just say, well, Not only are we going to celebrate your work in this school, working with our students, helping them be successful, but you're also going to have to do the impossible. We're also going to give you not enough copy paper and there are rats in the building. We have to have the talk. We have to have the PR, but we also have to have, as you said earlier in the book, the foundation, the basics in place so that it is a doable job, people can feel successful. And even if our students continue to have more difficult lives than the students in the school on the other side of the tracks, that we have lots to celebrate and we can take pride in that work.

[28:20] SPEAKER_00:

I would tell you the leader, whether it's an assistant principal or principal, is key for that because your enthusiasm is catching. It absolutely is. I have a quote up on my website. I have it in several of my books. A principal from an alternative school gave it to me and He says this to his teachers every single morning when they walk in the door. And I have never forgotten this.

[28:43]

I think y'all have posted this all over the place. He says, on your worst day, you are someone's best hope. And, you know, if you work in one of those particularly challenging schools, you got to remember that. Because if you're in a particularly challenging school, on your worst day, you are not someone's best hope. On your worst day, you are someone's only hope. And if that doesn't keep you going, I don't know what does.

[29:06] SPEAKER_01:

So one way I want to point out that people might benefit from using your book is to think about teacher absenteeism. And this has been an issue that has really occupied my mind for the last year or two, when we've seen just an unprecedented level, not only of student absenteeism, but teacher absenteeism, where people just feel like they can't get out of bed and come to work in the morning. And often one of our challenges in the tougher schools is we don't have the ability to hire just whoever we would like, right? We often have fewer candidates. We have people who are maybe teaching outside of their area. They feel less successful because, you know, you might be teaching a science class with a history degree and just kind of like everything is harder.

[29:47]

And when it comes to the reasons that people call in sick more, and I'm not talking about like if you're actually sick, obviously that's, you know, that's legitimate. That's not something that your principal can fix. But I feel like there's a motivational angle and a success angle and a support angle and kind of a Maslow's angle to teacher absenteeism that we've got to take seriously. Any thoughts on that?

[30:11] SPEAKER_00:

I agree with you. I do think that we need to recognize the validity that people are sick and we need to recognize the validity that we have many people who are struggling with mental illness. And that is just as valid. You know, just that's hard to think about sometimes because you go, well, they just they just don't seem to want to do something well. depending on how that is, that's like throwing up for somebody who's got a virus, you know, if they're medically depressed. So we've got to separate that out.

[30:38]

We're not talking about that area at all. But there are people who just It's just hard to come. I'm just not sure I want to. I mean, I just just don't know. Is it really worth it? And with those, I think, one, you got to go back to Maslow as the foundation.

[30:54]

Do you have the foundation in place for them? And that may even be as simple as if somebody does need five minutes to go to the bathroom. Do you have a way for them to get somebody to come and cover a class so they can go do that? I mean, that sounds so simple, but that's a big deal for a lot of teachers. So where do I have that safety and security? You know that if you come and you're not 100 percent, that that's still going to be OK. You know, we're going to be here for you.

[31:23]

It can be something as simple as if you do feel like you need some help with lessons. I was in a middle school. And they had someone who had been hired from out of the education system. He had retired as a manager of a plant and he had come into teaching and he would not do any small group activities at all. And if he was supposed to do a small group activity, he wouldn't come to school that day. And so the day I was there, I was just talking to people and getting and I finally sort of dug around a little bit with him and he didn't know how to do it.

[31:54]

He never put people in small groups who weren't adults. And he tried it one time with his kids and seventh graders aren't adults. And boy, they didn't behave themselves. And he said, I don't know what to do. And he said, I don't come on days we have small groups planned for that reason. Well, that's easy.

[32:09]

I went to principal and took care of that. I said, what are we going to do? And we lined up a parent volunteer, an instructional coordinator and an assistant principal who agreed to go in. He could pick the day he was going to do groups. They would come in and each of them would have a group and facilitate it. And throughout the day, they lowered the number of extra people that were in there.

[32:26]

And by the end of the day, he was doing it by himself. And after that, he was fine. And what that example shows is two things. One, the support you provide for them to be successful is critical. But the other thing is this. You have to figure out what's the reason.

[32:41]

You know, it's not enough just to say, OK, they're missing. You know, we had to dig around and find out it's that he's not coming when he doesn't want to do small groups. And once we found that out, it's easier to solve it. And there certainly are bigger issues that go on. It may just be I just don't feel like I can handle discipline. I feel like I've got this one student, you know, that is causing me problems.

[33:01]

You know, figure out what the reason is and then try to figure out the solution. I will tell you the one of the if not the best thing could be the best thing. that my principal that I worked for for seven years ever did. And he laughed when I told him that was what I thought the best thing was. He only did this with about 10 students in the entire school. And for all of you out there that are going to now want to call me or email me and say, Barbara, how did he make this work?

[33:25]

I do not know, okay? He was a wizard. I do not know how he made it work. I just know he did. I had one of the 10 students. He chose chronically misbehaving students, students that were driving us crazy.

[33:38]

Kid I had, I couldn't do anything with him. It didn't matter what I did. For those students, he made the parent come and stay in school with them all day. So this kid's mom had to come and sit in class. And if I called on students, she got called on too. She had to go sit and lunch with him.

[33:52]

If he went to the bathroom, she had to go and stand outside the door. Let me tell you, that's the last time I ever had a problem with that kid. Now, I know your question is, how did he make the parent come? I do not know. Okay. I just know it worked.

[34:06]

I just know it worked because this was the worst kid I've ever taught. And all of a sudden, you know, the issue of his mom having to miss work and be there and him being embarrassed, boy, that just took care of all the issues. He was just showing out to show out. And he liked that, but he sure didn't like his mom having to be there. So that took care of that. And so I really think, that we have to find out what's causing the problems and then figure out how to help and Maslow's going to be a part of it extrinsic motivation is going to be a part of it intrinsic motivation is going to be a part of it coaching with other teachers is going to be a part of it but you got to figure out what's going on first because if you don't know what's going on it doesn't matter

[34:47] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And that's tricky. I appreciate your nuance there, because certainly if somebody has an anxiety attack and needs to call in sick at the last minute, you know, we don't want to get too far into that. That's somebody's personal business, totally valid reason to be absent and not something that we can necessarily solve, but we do have to do you know, the rest of that kind of detective work around, you know, what's going on at school, what conditions can we put in place that will help people feel successful. And I think especially in our higher needs schools, there's this feeling that you have to be giving 110% all day, every day, or it's just going to crash and burn. And I think that's where a lot of this absenteeism comes from is just that the job is so hard.

[35:28]

People feel like, okay, I can give 98% today, but I know that's not going to be enough. So forget it. I think we've got to really take that seriously as kind of a success issue where people really don't want to show up and not be successful. And in a lot of cases, they would rather stay home. And that has big consequences when we have huge numbers of absences. So thanks for your thoughts on that.

[35:48]

I really appreciate that.

[35:49] SPEAKER_00:

Well, I'm going to add something to it because I'm going to add something that my dad always said to me, because my dad was my first and best teacher. I still miss him. He died four years ago. And he and I co-wrote a book together on advocacy. But one of the things that he always said to me when I was having a rough day, whether it was going to teach or going to teach college or going to work for as a consultant or writing my book, he'd go, you know, Barbara, you're telling me you're having a bad day on your bad day is like, you know, you're thinking that you just can't do it at all. But your 60% is better than most people showing up and getting it done.

[36:23]

So come on, you can do your 60%. And I hear that in my head over and over and over again. And anytime now that I start struggling, you know, I just can't, I can't be as good as I want. You know what? It's better than most people's, you know? And if you think about it for your teachers, their 60% is better than somebody who doesn't show up.

[36:43]

You know, absolutely. We'll take that. And so, you know, be a little nicer than that when you say it to them. OK, don't look quite that way. Say it the way my dad said. But it's very true.

[36:54]

But teachers are perfectionists. Remember I said teachers always want to be successful and they fail in front of other people. This is part of that.

[37:00] SPEAKER_01:

So the book is Improving Teacher Morale and Motivation, Leadership Strategies that Build Student Success. And as you said earlier, Barbara, this is a book that I think people could probably pretty easily read in one day, maybe take it home on a weekend, and you could flip through it in a few minutes and just get a sense of where you might need to focus in the coming week. But I just really appreciate the actionable strategies as well as the organization around some of the key ideas in leadership and psychology that it's so easy for us to forget as we deal with the endless parade of new ideas that come our way and mandates that come our way. If we can remember the fundamentals, if we can remember just the basic principles of how motivation and morale work, I think we'll be in great shape. So, Barbara, if people want to get in touch with you, maybe have you work with their faculty or their leadership team a bit, where's the best place for them to go online to get in touch with you?

[37:51] SPEAKER_00:

A one-stop shop is my website, online.com. Or you can Google me with like Barbara Blackburn and rigor because I show up with rigor all the time. There's over 100 free resources. There are free downloads from all the books. There is a contact form so you can email me.

[38:07]

And there's a phone number so you can call me. So anything you need, you can get to me through the website.

[38:13] SPEAKER_01:

Fabulous.

[38:13] Announcer:

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