Life at Performance Level

[00:01] Announcer:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, helping you build capacity for instructional leadership. Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center, Dr. Justin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:13] SPEAKER_01:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to welcome to the program Curtis Zimmerman. Curtis is a bestselling author, keynote speaker, and host of the podcast, The Next 24 Hours. He's the author of four books, including Keys to Success in College and Life, and Life at Performance Level, which we're here to talk about today.

[00:34] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:37] SPEAKER_00:

Curtis, welcome to Principal Center Radio. Justin, I am so excited about being here, and thank you so much for inviting me on the program.

[00:43] SPEAKER_01:

Well, I'm excited to talk about this idea of life as a performance, kind of seeing ourselves as playing a role, as living out a script. Take us into that kind of central metaphor of life at performance level.

[01:00] SPEAKER_00:

Yes, absolutely. So the main thing is I started out as a performer myself. I performed for about 25 years as a mime and a juggler and a fire eater and a magician. And I worked in amusement parks for nine years. Then I travel on cruise ships as a performer. And I was getting ready as a performer to do a show in a very large stage.

[01:22]

And this idea hit me. And the idea was, wow, if I could just somehow take all the principles that it takes to put my show on stage and try to apply those into my life, I could try to live my life at performance level. And so that's really what started this whole thing for me going from a performer into a speaker and wrote a book, Life at Performance Level. And since then have gone and shared my message with over a million people live. And it's very interactive. We still teach everyone to juggle because the only way you can learn to juggle is if you're willing to drop the ball.

[01:56]

But the main principle here is if you think about doing a show, the first thing you have to do is write a script. What do you want your life to be about? If we transfer that metaphor onto you. What is your past? What are those old scripts? And what are you going to do differently to write the next chapter of your life?

[02:14]

So that's the first thing you have to do when you're going to put on a show. Then you have to decide who's going to be the star of the show. And every single person that's listening right now, I want you to know you're the star of your life. Now, I know as an administrator, as a principal, as a teacher, you're naturally a giver and you give to other people. And that's wonderful. But there also is a time where you have to stand center stage and put all the lights on you and decide very, very specifically what it is you're going to do as the star of the show if you want to change the next scene of your life.

[02:47]

And you have to think about the six or eight people you surround yourself with, your cast members. Do they build you up? Do they make your show better? Or do they slowly suck the lifeblood out of you every day? So...

[02:58]

Those are the kinds of things that we have to think about if we want to think about what's next. And everybody's had to take a giant pause and think about, hmm, what did I used to fill my life with before? If you think of your life as a giant stage, think of all the clutter and all the things we said yes to. Well, when we had to say no to everything, it went back to a blank stage. And I encourage everyone who's listening, before you say yes and just fill your life stage up with all of this chaos and all of this noise again, it's a perfect time to really pause and think about I'm about to climb into the most important chapter of my life. And how can I take control of it in a new and different way?

[03:38]

That's what life at performance level is all about.

[03:41] SPEAKER_01:

Well, Curtis, I love that extended metaphor. And you carry that throughout the book about writing your script. And as you said, kind of assembling your cast, you know, for us at the Principal Center, you know, what we hear from people most on is their own career development, you know, making the decision to maybe move out of the classroom and become an assistant principal or a principal, perhaps making the decision to step out of the principalship and take a central office senior leadership role. And I feel like for educators in particular, there's a degree of tension and almost guilt that thinking through one's own life and one's own goals is somewhat selfish. It feels selfish to people sometimes that I should only be here There's this belief that I should only be here to serve the kids. I should occupy this role and kind of bloom where I'm planted and not think about myself at all.

[04:34]

And yet, sometimes we realize that the place where we are the place where we have found ourselves is not where we need to be. And we do need to make a plan and kind of write a script for moving into that next level role. What are some of your thoughts for leaders who are wondering, do I take that next step? Do I maybe move to a different organization or apply for a different role that might be a stretch for me?

[04:59] SPEAKER_00:

Well, you and I are on exactly the same page. It's very important that we realize that We can't give away what we don't possess. So I can't give you anything that I don't own. And if you want to help the people in your organization grow and become and challenge themselves, that means you have to be willing to do that yourself. So that's not selfishness. That's giving you more tools to share with more people.

[05:28]

I don't know how many people right now are looking at you and listening to you and thinking about the things and the way that you handle things, but you're in a leadership role. If you're listening to this right now, you're in a leadership role. And I'm telling you, if you don't challenge yourself and if you don't grow and change and try to go to the next level, you're telling other people, wow, that's They're so much more qualified than me and they're not doing that. There's no way I could do that. And I want you to flip that. I want you to say, wow, if I challenge myself and I go out of my comfort zone and if I change career paths or whatever that looks like, think about how many people In the future may feel like, well, they did it and they succeeded.

[06:11]

Now I can. So you have to model the behavior you want to see in other people, as well as what you want to see in your life. This is an e-ticket. This is not a dress rehearsal. And your life is a live show. And there's something called the rocking chair test I love to talk about.

[06:30]

And it's so important that you think about one day when your career is over and you're sitting thinking back on, hmm, what did I do? What didn't I do? What challenges did I take? Make sure when you put your mindset there, you're going to feel really satisfied about what you did. And I call it jumping off the cliff. The more you jump off the cliff, the more that you feel comfortable with the free fall that happens and the more control you have.

[07:00]

The only way you can do that is by continue to jump off the cliff and jump off the cliff over and over. So that's not being selfish. That's actually giving more tools to give away to other people. So take the time to think about that. And don't be afraid to talk to some people like Justin about, Hmm, what does that path look like? And how do I get there?

[07:21]

Because even though I'm an expert in so many things, this is something I might need some coaching on. And, um, Hopefully, this podcast will give you the inspiration to do that on your own. One more thing with that, and that is most of you that are listening, whatever you're thinking the next thing is, you're already overqualified. This is what I mostly find. Well, I have to get this other degree, or I need nine years in this, or once I have my doctorate. No, no.

[07:51]

If you love kids, you love what it takes to run a really great organization and what it takes to give every day. If you have that and you own it, you don't need to read another book or another article. You don't need another degree. You need to just say, I'm ready and jump off the cliff.

[08:09] SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's so true. And I hear that, Curtis, from people all the time that they think they need to get some sort of additional training, some sort of additional degree. And I hear from them. I hear their passion for teaching and learning. I hear their expertise, that deep expertise that comes not only from the degrees that they already have, but the professional experience and really what is really lacking is just that readiness to jump off the cliff. And know that they are, as you said, probably already overqualified, especially compared to the other people who are out there going for those same roles.

[08:45]

What about that kind of fear of opening night or that stage fright of, okay, I can do this in rehearsal. I can put together a good resume. I can say all the right things in an interview. But what about that hesitation that especially, I think, humble and good-hearted people tend to feel at taking that next step?

[09:07] SPEAKER_00:

Wow. It's so important. I mean, it is the... the differentiator between you getting your goal or you just standing, not jumping off the cliff and thinking, overthinking it.

[09:20]

What you just said is so important. And the way that I position it is in the metaphor of a student. And so we've all walked up on a classroom that hasn't opened yet, but it's test day. And we see students walking, pacing back and forth. And this is people ask me, Curtis, Before you speak in front of 1,500 people, are you nervous? And it's the same question you just asked.

[09:44]

And what I say is, look at those students. And you see one that's pacing back and forth. And that student has studied. That student has done all the work. That student has the information at their fingertips. But they still are feeling that pump.

[09:57]

They still know they have to now get that content out of their brain onto a piece of paper so that they can come through and really, really shine in this test. But then there's somebody else and they're pacing back and forth and they're not prepared. and they haven't studied and they're just trying to figure out how in the world they're going to get through the next hour of their life. So I want everyone to be anxious and be excited in a good way, but because you've, you've prepared and you feel really good about where you are, you still want to bring that energy to the next stage of your life. The other thing I would say is there are people that love to share their their resume. You know, like I started, we started Mime, Juggler, Universal Studios, Entertainer of the Year, Best Selling Author.

[10:45]

That's my resume. And people love to share that. But the great, great leaders that I've met and the ones that are always moving forward are the ones that are not afraid to share something I call your real resume. And your real resume is who you really are. And your real resume is why you really do what you do. And the reason I agreed to be on this podcast is because I've had teachers change the trajectory of my life.

[11:10]

And so my real resume is, yes, all the things I said about my resume are true, but I also grew up on welfare and food stamps. And my mother was married six times. I have dyslexia, so I was in special ed my entire life. I'm the youngest of five children and the first one to graduate from high school. And Norman Natal, my junior high school teacher, she found out, she interviewed me and she found out what I was passionate about. She went to the library and got a giant stack on mime, a giant stack of books on juggling and a giant stack of books on magic.

[11:43]

And I think in junior high, I was probably on a second or third grade level reading. And I went up two and a half, three grade levels that year. And when I graduated from high school, she had a bunch of polo luggage sitting in my house when I got home from graduation with a note saying, Curtis, thank you for being my first student to ever graduate. I'm giving you this polo luggage because I want you to travel the world as a performer and I want you to go in style. Love, Norman Natal. That power, every single person that's listening has, and that's the focus.

[12:16]

And that's why you get paid for what you do. I'm living proof that you can have an impact on somebody that's probably doesn't have everything they need going their way. But if you take the time to do those kinds of things, your career is worthwhile. That is your real resume. And I just recommend everyone use it more often because in these hard times, everyone who came through the pandemic and all of the different tragedies that are happening, I'm telling you, you need to open up and go, guess what? I'm not bulletproof.

[12:47]

I have problems and I have things I'm dealing with too, but I want to be your partner to help you in your career and help you reach kids in a new way.

[12:55] SPEAKER_01:

Well, Curtis, one of the things that I know a lot of our listeners struggle with that I personally struggled with when I was making the decision to move into an administrative role is the distance from students. And you just shared the impact that a teacher can make. And I think back to being in the classroom thinking, do I want to step away from that direct impact on students and face this tension around, will I still have an impact on students if I move to the dark side, if I move over to... administration and try to make a difference that way.

[13:29]

And I think what tipped the balance for me was just recognizing where some of my strengths lay, that maybe the greatest contribution I could make was not to be in the classroom. Because for me, there was definitely this fear that what I was already doing, I was pretty good at. And what I was setting out to do, I knew I was not yet good at, right? There's this kind of competence trap that comes in where we're starting to do something new that I'm giving up being able to continue to make a difference in the things that I know work for me, that I know I can do successfully. And I'm stepping into something that I might really fail at, right? I might fall flat on my face as an administrator and say, you know what, this was a mistake.

[14:12]

I should go back to the classroom. How do we overcome that fear knowing that it's not an irrational fear?

[14:19] SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Well, there are two things that I would share. First off, I'm so glad you did because I'm sure you've impacted many more lives because you did jump off the cliff and put yourself in an uncomfortable position personally, but ultimately it helped so many more people. And what I would say is in my program, Life at Performance Level, one of the things I do is I'll bring a thousand sets of juggling balls and I'll teach the entire audience how to juggle. But the point behind it is when they first see it, they go, well, I can't juggle and I've tried in the past. And what I do is I take it step by step by step.

[14:54]

And I explain every single time you drop the ball, the mindset I want you to have is, oh, I'm amazing. I'm awesome. That is killer. I'm going to crush it. And what happens is it changes that idea of what failure is, because the only way any learning happens and the way you get a new skill, the only way you learn how to juggle is is if you're willing to drop the ball through the process. And I would say the same thing with, I'm in the classroom, I'm a master teacher, I'm amazing.

[15:24]

Why would I step out of this comfort and go put myself in a position where I'm not a master? Because you have mastered that, now it's time to go share it. Because here's what I used to do. I used to do a lot of school assemblies, like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of school assemblies. Then one day I realized, wow, if I did a teacher in service...

[15:44]

Rather than just affecting the 1,400 kids, the 1,400 students at this specific assembly, I could affect 150 administrators and teachers, and then they could affect thousands of kids over their entire career. So it just made more sense to me, even though I love performing and I love speaking to the students and engaging them, if I could engage those teachers. And that's what I would say, everyone that's listening, that's currently thinking about, hmm, do I want to be a superintendent? Hmm, do I want to be a principal? Take yourself out of it and think about the impact on those kids you say you love. Will it be thousands and thousands more because you took the time to get uncomfortable?

[16:30]

And if the answer is yes, you need to start working toward that next chapter of your life. That's my answer to that question.

[16:37] SPEAKER_01:

Well, Curtis, it's funny you mention juggling because my older daughter has recently taken an interest in that and just kind of trying to teach herself. And that fear of dropping the ball and that fear of maybe looking foolish for a moment. If I'm great at juggling, I feel great about it. But if I'm constantly dropping the ball, that kind of early learning curve does not feel good. And I think for any of us who have taken on a new role, or especially later in our careers, I think early in our career, we expect there to be a steep learning curve. But as we get older, as we start to develop a longer track record of success in what we do, for a lot of us, it's been a very long time since we've been a novice at something.

[17:25]

And I think that fear of kind of going back to that novice stage and really dropping the ball on a regular basis is something that's hard for a lot of us, especially as we get further into our careers. It's hard for us to confront that kind of return, right? How do we think about that as professionals, as performers in our own lives? Yeah.

[17:46] SPEAKER_00:

We tell students every day that you want to be a lifelong learner. Isn't that what we say? So I hate to say it, but you have to drink your own medicine. And part of that means that you are going to start at the beginning again. And I just love the concept of you being uncomfortable. And I do it.

[18:08]

The reason I'm successful and I, you know, just in general, the reason why I've been successful as a keynote speaker is because In my leading up to any program I do with Coca-Cola or Universal Studios, it's mandatory that all of the top executives sit in the front. And why is that so important? Because their leadership, I want them to show everyone else in the room how much they suck at juggling, just like everyone else. And what happens is when we get successful and we get comfortable, so often leaders get amnesia about all the things they had to do to get where they are. And they don't realize every other person that now is downstream of them, they're looking at them like they're bulletproof. And they need to remind them, listen, I was you.

[19:00] SPEAKER_01:

I had those fears. I love that because it's something we tell students every day. We expect our students to approach a subject that's new to them, a topic that's new to them, a skill that's new to them. And we don't accept the excuse that, well, I don't know how to do this. Of course, you don't know how to do it. We're here to teach you from wherever you are.

[19:17]

to help you do that. So tell me more about the experiential aspect of that for leaders. You said you put senior leadership on the front row, you make them juggle, which most of them are not good at, right? I'm not good at juggling. And what happens with students and what happens with other professionals when they see their leaders failing, trying something new, dropping the ball, as you said?

[19:43] SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's funny because when we drop the ball, personally, we call it failure. And I tell students and I tell executives, failing is an event, not a person. Why do you own that? In business, when we fail, we call it innovation. And I want to give you permission to innovate yourself. And I want students to know that whatever it is you're afraid of failing about, you're going to have a really hard time getting a job or you're going to have a really hard time being an entrepreneur.

[20:14]

You're going to have a really hard time in relationships because they're not perfect. This live thing we're all experiencing right now, it's not going to be perfect. And the world is not going to give you everything you want when you want it. Therefore, you have to build that muscle. to understand, wow, well, this is a new opportunity. Now this just happened.

[20:35]

And now that means I get to pivot. I mean, a perfect example of that is I've been doing live performing for 35, 40 years. I am a live performer as a speaker. And before that as a juggler and a fire eater and all that on cruise ships and all that. Well, guess what? There are no performances happening right now.

[20:55]

So I had to stop my world and I had to go back and, And go, you know what? Who can I impact right now in a deep way? And what tools can I give in a deep way? And so we went into the studio. We did a three-camera shoot. And we did an old-time school assembly program where I'm juggling and I'm spinning plates.

[21:14]

But I have the metaphor of life at performance level and writing the next chapter. And I have a study guide that goes with it. And all of that stuff I did and I performed. And I was, woo-hoo, without an audience. And in my entire career, I've never performed before without an audience. But I was excited for that new challenge.

[21:36]

I wasn't looking at it as a negative. I was looking at it as how can I impact as many kids as possible, as many students, and as many teachers. Because building that rapport with these open-ended questions, Curtis talked about casting your show wisely. Who are the six or eight people you surround yourself with? Do they build you up or do they probably need to get fewer lines? Those kinds of conversations are the kinds of conversations we're having a hard time having because they're not in the classroom necessarily.

[22:04]

They're more online. We can have the video show in a classroom that works there as well. But the reason I share that is that specific program, I had to completely pivot and change everything I'm comfortable with. But I know it's going to have an impact on thousands and thousands of little minds and give teachers a way to communicate in a new way. So even though I was uncomfortable, ultimately, that's what I had to do to have the impact I know I want to have. That's not just my challenge.

[22:34]

That's every single person's challenge that's listening. You know, how do I tell the teachers what I feel? I don't know. Are you giving them a one-minute text message every single day? Every single day? Yeah.

[22:47]

Some of the great leaders I know have been doing that for 13 years now. One of the biggest hotel owners and operators in the world I had dinner with, and he's been doing a short one sentence. Hey, tomorrow we're going to be focusing on this. He's been sending it out every day for 13 years. So it isn't that I want you to give me a newsletter once a month that no one's going to read. because we're in TikTok land.

[23:16]

No one reads that stuff. If you're doing that and making people do that, you're wasting time and energy. Give me a little blurb every day to feed me. Can you pick five videos out of YouTube that are inspirational for teacher stories? Are you sharing that with your staff? You have to be somebody that's out there gathering information and your job is to distribute it in a new and exciting way that then they can share with the students.

[23:38]

That's what everybody wants. So I encourage people that are listening to just go out of your comfort zone and share things that make other people's day in a big way. And I know a lot of people are doing it. If you are, I'm saying keep it up. If you're not, I'm saying it's time to get out of the old way and think about, hmm, how do my kids communicate? How do my, your kids at home, you know, how do they communicate?

[24:04]

Not with eye contact, not verbally as much as we want. Am I going to just keep fighting it or am I going to start giving teachers the resources to reach the kids in a deep way through videos and through interactive activities? And my stuff's very interactive on purpose. Teachers need to do that, too.

[24:21] SPEAKER_01:

I think just understanding the way we can have an impact has been such a learning curve for our profession when our students are not necessarily with us in person, or maybe some of them are and some of them aren't. Tell us a little bit more about the virtual assembly. You described your process of performing before zero live audience in order to take that next step of being able to reach people through the virtual assembly. What does that look like from the school side if people want to bring that into their classrooms?

[24:51] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So what we're doing is if any school would like the program, they get the program, they're able to use it for a year. Now, again, we talked to a lot of administrators and a lot of teachers in school districts prior to. And so what we've done is we designed it's basically like a 40 minute program. all school assembly program. That is a video, but also some people are like, well, Curtis, could we do two 20 minute versions?

[25:14]

So I can do 20 minutes and then we can have discussion questions after it. And the next Monday we'll do another 20 minutes. Other people said, well, Curtis, what would be great for me is if I could have my teacher start every day, uh, with 10 minutes of inspirational messaging from Curtis, followed up by three or four questions and maybe a little worksheet. So all of those things are designed out. So you get all of that and then you're able to distribute it accordingly. Whatever works for you.

[25:42]

Do you want everyone to watch it at once? And then we're going to just highlight little bits and pieces so we can spread it out. One and done does nothing. We don't say, here's how you learn your times tables, and now we're never going to talk about it again. That does not work. you have to have something I call internal drip marketing.

[26:02]

And that's what everyone does in every company I work with. We have the big message, but then we go back and we revisit those principles for a week. Let's talk just this week about how is it that dropping the ball and failing can make you better at something. And every time you drop the ball, oh, look, you've got a C on this math test. Great. That's awesome.

[26:27]

You're not in school to demonstrate what you already know. You're in school to grow and change and become. That means the process is you're not going to have A's on everything every single time. Otherwise, you probably should move up a grade level. That's not the goal here. So it gives a real tool to open up conversations so that kids can be more comfortable.

[26:51]

Students can feel more equipped at whatever it is. And we all have a common language then when somebody says, oh, wow, that kind of sounds like an old script. Hmm, that sounds like the dropping the ball metaphor. That sounds like, so it gives everyone a language. And also just so it's clear, this is also true with the staff because the staff needs to grow and change and become, and they're very challenged. And it's interesting for me because people that are amazing performers, which are the best teachers I've ever had, they're performers and they're all in.

[27:26]

And then there are people that are more about a persona. And the people that are all about their persona are having a really hard time because there's, you know, if you're doing online learning, your cat walks in the background. It's hard to be this persona when real life is there. So those people, in my opinion, need as much help as anyone to say it's okay to be real. It's okay to share your real resume. It's okay to just be you.

[27:56]

Just show up and be you. Kids can tell. Students know. And if you open yourself up to that personally as an administrator, you're giving your staff the same permission. And that to me is just critical now and far after. That's what all leaders do, not just during a pandemic or, you know, all that stuff.

[28:18]

It's just in general. Be real.

[28:21] SPEAKER_01:

Well, Curtis, I think one challenge that many school leaders have faced is just creating that sense of togetherness and that sense of common language and common metaphors and the feeling that, well, if we can't all get together for an assembly in the lunchroom, you know, the health department says we can't have assemblies anymore. It's been amazing to see the creativity of educators in solving some of those perennial challenges of creating a school culture, creating a sense of togetherness and a sense of mission for the year and getting people on the same page. It's been fabulous to see just the innovation and the creativity that leaders, that teachers have brought. put into these challenges of serving our students in completely unprecedented and challenging times and circumstances. So Curtis, if people want to get in touch with you and learn more about the virtual assembly or learn more about your books, including life at performance level, where's the best place for them to go online?

[29:15] SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. So it's curtiszimmerman.com. Or you can just email me, curtis at curtiszimmerman.com. And I can send you whatever it is, links to the promo video and get you more information on that.

[29:29]

And I would just say everything you just said is exactly why we did the program. Because... It's so important that we have resources that are ongoing and all the things people have done and all the resources we've given in the past as administrators, that's great. But we have to keep that pipeline filled with new content because we're blasting through it so fast.

[29:54]

And there are so many people struggling to say, okay, again, I'm on TV today for four and a half hours. That's basically what it is. I didn't sign up for this. So what's something I can use as a resource? They watch this video, I watch the video, and then we have a conversation about it. And then we build it right into the curriculum.

[30:13]

So, you know, the time to entertain and educate has never been more important because... My kids are stimulated constantly through their devices, and you have to compete with that. There's just no going away from it. So that's what this program is designed to do.

[30:35]

So if they, like I said, if they want to check it out, Curtis at CurtisZimmerman.com or just, you know, email me.

[30:42] SPEAKER_01:

So again, the book is Life at Performance Level. Curtis Zimmerman, thank you so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio.

[30:49] SPEAKER_00:

Dustin, it's been my honor. And anyone that's listened today, thank you for listening. And go out there and help other people.

[30:56] Announcer:

Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.