The Generous Leader: 7 Ways to Give of Yourself for Everyone’s Gain

[00:01] SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center and Champion of High Performance Instructional Leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome everyone to Principal Center Radio.

[00:15] SPEAKER_00:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm thrilled to be joined today by Jean Desravenes. Jean is the CEO of New Leaders and the author of two books, one of which we're here to talk about today. Gene has served as a member of Governor Cuomo's Education Reform Commission in New York State and was named to Forbes Impact 30 list, recognizing the world's leading social entrepreneurs from around the country. And we're here today to talk about his book Breakthrough Principles, a step-by-step guide to building stronger schools.

[00:48] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:51] SPEAKER_00:

Gene, welcome to Principal Center Radio. Thank you, Justin. Thrilled to be with you. I wonder if we could start by talking about the origin of this book in the work that you lead at New Leaders around preparing principals for the challenging work of leadership. What existing work that your organization has been engaged in did this book come out of?

[01:12] SPEAKER_01:

For the past 15 years, we have been training and preparing leaders to go into high-need urban schools to drive student achievements. And what we were seeing, starting in 2000, we were seeing that there were a set of principles that were getting breakthrough gains. And we wanted to take a step back to identify the practices and strategies that would lead into those breakthrough gains. So over a course of 10 years, starting in 2006, we went into over 200 high poverty schools led by new leaders to identify the practices that were driving their gains

[02:05]

And that was the origin of breaking principles.

[02:09] SPEAKER_00:

Well, we know that leading any school is a challenge. And I know that New Leaders has taken on a particular challenge in recruiting and in training and supporting new leadership for schools that have a history of challenge, have a history of perhaps turnover or low student performance. So, you know, within a profession that is already demanding, within a job that is already demanding, you're working with schools where that job is perhaps harder than anywhere else and where I know in many cases, the person coming in had a predecessor who might not have succeeded or might have had kind of a succession of predecessors. And as a result, you know, the school is not in, not always in the shape that we would like it to be in. What are some of the things that you've seen and have captured in the book that make the biggest difference in turning around a school, in getting everyone on the same page, in building capacity?

[03:04]

What are some of the big ideas that came out of your research?

[03:07] SPEAKER_01:

Great question, Justin. So I'll take a step back to actually highlight something that is obvious to your listeners, but really important to underscore. What became clear to us in visiting these 200 schools is the critical role that the school leader plays in driving student achievement gains. And we also felt that within breakthrough principles that transformative leaders They're not flukes. They're not superheroes. Actually, they consistently enact a set of leadership practices that drives student outcome.

[03:47]

And to your question, what became clear to us, there was a set of areas that transformative school leaders focused on. First, Creating the right school culture. Oftentimes what we saw in schools, the culture was not conducive to teaching and learning. It was not a culture of high expectations for kids. And these transformative leaders were able to create a school culture that made it possible to create a vision of excellence for kids and to make it an environment where teachers wanted to learn. The second piece was a focus on learning and teaching, making clear to everyone in the school building that the primary purpose was to ensure that learning and teaching was taking place.

[04:38]

Third, a relentless focus on talent management, ensuring that they had the very best teachers in the schools through recruitment, selection, development, and ongoing supports of those teachers. Fourth, focus on planning and operations. And finally, these leaders had incredible personal leadership. They were convicted around the possibility that every single child, irrespective of social economic status, could achieve at a high level. And that viewpoint was consistently conveyed throughout the school. So that serves as the framework for the book.

[05:26]

It's the five areas of focus based on what we saw in the 200 schools we visited.

[05:32] SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think there's such a tight connection there between the first and the last that you mentioned, you know, the idea of culture and the idea of having an environment where people are working toward a shared mission, where people are working together because they believe in each other and because they believe that the endeavor is both worthwhile and doable. And then back to your final point there about belief, about being the kind of leader who inspires that belief. And I think one of the challenges that we face in so many schools that have a history of really struggling is that people stop believing. and people let the cynicism set in and they they see some of their uh you know their more talented colleagues perhaps move on to another school or they they invest hope in a new leader who comes in only to see that leader leave again quickly so for educators who might find themselves kind of in that position you know if you are the assistant principal and you've hung on and a principal has you know there's been some principal turnover and there's been

[06:36]

you know, some negativity around that and just a feeling that things are not headed in the right direction. What does it mean and what does it look like to lead from that place of belief that our students can learn, that we can be a school that meets their needs even if right now we're not? What traits do leaders embody to send that message or, you know, what does that look like?

[07:00] SPEAKER_01:

It's a great question and it's a powerful question because oftentimes We see that in low income, predominantly minority schools, and I would say two pieces to that in terms of the traits and the characteristics that we see. First, there's a deep conviction that every child can succeed, regardless of background and the ability, and there's this ability to inspire others around that belief. Strong communication skills, being a transparent leader um and building trust amongst key people within the school to be successful in the school environments you just described it is critically important to be self-reflective and to be resilient you have to be a continuous learner you have to embrace learning and thrive in an environment where you're willing to grow and be

[08:01]

persistent through ongoing challenges. So I would say those are some of the characteristics that are important within that setting. I would also say, Justin, one of the other key insights from the book is that if you are going to be successful in the settings we've just described, it's imperative that you build a team it cannot be about the individual leader it has to be about a critical mass of leaders including teacher leaders teachers within that school with a shared belief system to help create that culture and that vision so if you are in a setting where there's been heavy turnover

[08:54]

it's critically important to take a level of ownership to say, I want to be part of that change, and I want to work with a set of teachers, teaching leaders with shared beliefs so we can begin to turn around the school, whether or not we have the leader we want to see in place at this point in time. Because one of the other consistent themes we've seen is that it takes more than one person to help turn around a school that is low performing and high needs, that it takes an entire body of people. And irrespective of the role you play, you can play a significant role in being a change agent within that school.

[09:36] SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. And I think back just personally to my experience as a new teacher. I was hired as a science teacher at the age of 21 in a pretty high needs school and definitely had not had the training that I needed to be successful right off the bat and came into this school obviously very overwhelmed. And I think a lot of people in the school were in kind of the same situation where It was the job that was available to them. I moved across the country to Seattle after a phone interview, and it was the job that I had, and I was happy to be there. But I was in deep over my head and had to kind of learn quickly on my feet as the year began.

[10:17]

And as I looked around me, I started to notice what you just mentioned, that phenomenon of leadership being shared in ways that didn't necessarily... just line up with titles. The principal obviously was an instructional leader, but one of the other key instructional leaders was one of the special education teachers. And Don, if you're out there, hope you're doing well.

[10:42]

But I thought to myself, why is he leading this meeting? He's got that classroom way at the back of the school, and it's a self-contained class, and he only works with 10 kids all day. Why is he playing this role? And it took me a long time to realize that Yes, that may have been unusual, and yes, he might, under different circumstances, have just kind of kept to his own classroom, but it was really critical to the school that he led in the way he did, that he had a perspective on what our school needed, he had a perspective on school culture, he had a perspective on our attitudes that we needed to have towards students that was hugely valuable, and that was an incredible source of leadership. And as I think about other teachers that I worked with that led in different ways, even if they didn't have a title that recognized that leadership. Seeing who stayed and who left over the years, I really can look back now and see that that leadership was so powerful.

[11:39]

But to that issue of talent that we touched on briefly, and who stays and who leaves, one of the things that I think can be very discouraging for us, especially as teachers who who want to believe, who want to stay, and who want to help things get better in a struggling school. One of the things that can be very frustrating, and I'd love to have your take on this, is the sense that in a struggling school, Mediocre is pretty good, so if I'm a pretty mediocre teacher, I'm gonna try to stay in a struggling school, because I'm gonna fly beneath the radar, and I'm not gonna be hassled too much, because oh, we have tough kids, and how are you gonna give me a hard time? I'm kind of average here. And if you're a great teacher in a really struggling school, It can be really, really frustrating to see people just kind of camping out and saying, OK, well, this is a job. No one can take it from me.

[12:30]

And to see the level of professionalism get stuck below where you know it needs to be and to see the level of teaching performance get stuck well below where our students need it to be. So what have you seen from schools that have really taken talent management seriously and have become able, perhaps after many years of not being able, to attract and retain high-quality teachers? What have you seen work to get things started, to build that momentum, to hire the teachers that our students need?

[13:00] SPEAKER_01:

It's such a powerful point. And this is where the point I made earlier about the framework becomes so critically important. creating that vision of excellence in that school culture where it's clear that there is an expectation of excellence for the students and the leader will not use circumstances as an excuse for not striving for that excellence. And what we have seen is that the school leader often sets the tone by making it clear that it's not acceptable to be mediocre and it's not acceptable to be average given the student population that's being served.

[13:51]

Ironically, what we've seen is that these transformative school leaders actually set the bar higher. And the reason why they set the bar higher for learning and teaching is because there's a realization that oftentimes the kids being served may be at one to two grade levels behind. And as such, they need to have the very best teachers, not only to make one year gain, but they need to make a year and a half, and in some cases, two years of gains. And because of that, a relentless focus to ensure that the teachers are driving to make that level of growth, to make it possible for their kids to catch up.

[14:42]

And what we've seen is something that's ironic, that oftentimes when you have these great teachers who often feel demoralized, with the right leader, They feel empowered. They create this culture of excellence within the school where the mediocre teachers or the teachers who are not willing to work as hard often decide to opt out and leave because a culture has been created and the expectation has been set that they're not in alignment with. And now you've got this critical mass and this sense of momentum that the excellent teachers don't want to use. And because they don't want to use that, they create this environment where people who are not on board decide they'll go somewhere else because they don't want to work as hard.

[15:34] SPEAKER_00:

And I'm reminded of W. Edwards Deming's statement that in an organization, if you look at where the performance comes from, where the results come from, as individuals, we tend to attribute results to individuals. We tend to say, oh, well, you're getting great results in your classroom because you're a great teacher. And over here, we're getting poor results because you're a poor teacher. But what Deming said that I think is a continual challenge to us as educators is that 94% of of our results come not from what the individual does, you know, the individual difference that that person makes, but from the system that they work within. And as I look at stories of turnaround schools, and look at books like yours, and look at books like Paul Bambrick Santoya's Leveraged Leadership, one thing I'm always struck by is in how many schools

[16:25]

The teachers who are part of a turnaround effort, the teachers who are brought in perhaps to make a big change are often fairly new teachers and are often fairly inexperienced teachers. You might have some veterans, you might have people with 20 years of experience, but overall, typically, the average experience is fairly low. And I've always been surprised by that. But if we think about some of the factors that you talk about in the book around systems and around the way that we manage and around data and the way that we create alignment, that makes a lot of sense to me. And I wonder if we could talk more about some of that kind of instructional alignment that allows perhaps people who have not been the best teachers in the world for 30 years, but maybe just have, you know, have some potential have had some success early on in their careers, you know, that allows a school staffed by people who are in that situation to really become excellent and to really turn things around.

[17:22]

What is what is that alignment process look like? And what's the result of that alignment work that you've seen in breakthrough schools?

[17:30] SPEAKER_01:

It's a critically important point, because as you can appreciate justice. School leadership is difficult and complex, but it's very systematic. So what we've seen is that our programs and the work, it can be taught through clear systems and processes. And what has happened with our work is ensuring that all of our programs focuses on job-embedded training to show what is possible for building the skills and practices that we know is effective for leadership and support. And similarly, it's the same thing that we see oftentimes happen with our newer teachers by ensuring that we're providing job-embedded skills, support,

[18:26]

an ongoing practice and consistent feedback through observation and supervision, they're able to put in place the systems to ensure they're providing the quality teaching and learning that is essential for the schools that we're serving.

[18:44] SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. And I think describing it as a system, as you just did, is really critical. I think when it especially comes to instructional feedback in in terms of providing support for teachers to improve. Often, I think, if we're honest with ourselves, we don't have much of a system. But one theme that I see in your book, that I see in the work of New Leaders, is that it has to be a system. That if we're going to reliably bring in new teachers, help them understand our systems, help them understand the culture of our school and the beliefs that they need to have about whether our students can learn, if we're going to reliably Get everyone to a place where they're on the same page, they're working toward common goals, they're using a common set of practices.

[19:30]

It has to be an instructional leadership system that causes that to happen. We're not going to simply post a job ad and get the right people who already have all of the skills and all of the dispositions that we need. What are some of the demands that that system poses? places on leaders. If you are going to really be systematic and purposeful about your instructional leadership and about helping teachers improve and helping teachers learn the key instructional practices that make your school tick, where do principals really need to be firing on all cylinders? And as you lead a program that supervises and prepares leaders, what do you want them to really be high performers in?

[20:12]

What's the key leadership action that you kind of look for, that you train for, that you really want to see leaders exercising in terms of instructional leadership?

[20:21] SPEAKER_01:

It's such an important question because as you know, leading a school, you can focus on a number of things. And without being proactive and strategic about being a systemic thinker, you can be reactive putting out fires all the time and not really driving outcomes. So there are a set of things from our perspective that is critically important if you are going to be a transformative leader. First and foremost, you've got to have an instructional lens and be an instructional leader. And by that we mean you have got to be relentless in terms of your focus around observation and supervision being in classrooms providing feedback continuously you have got to be as paul bamberg santoria really focuses on this in one of his books you've got to be a data driven leader using data to really understand where each and every one of your students are

[21:28]

and having a strategy with your teachers in terms of how you drive student achievement gains based on where your students are at this very moment. And as I've pointed out earlier, you've got to be a relentless talent manager. Ultimately, you will not be able to do this work on your own. You have got to identify your strong teachers, ensure that they're feeling supported and you're providing the necessary guidance your teachers who are average or above average, ensuring that you're doing everything possible to get them to the next level, and the piece that we're often uncomfortable talking about within education are teachers who do not have the will, who do not believe that every single child can achieve at a high level. You have got to be relentless in providing them with feedback, documenting them, and if there's not any

[22:24]

path to improving their practice and their skills, you've got to be open to transitioning them out. What we've seen school leaders who are strong instructional leaders, great talent managers, but yet just focus on data, are able to drive the type of gains that's necessary within low-income schools.

[22:48] SPEAKER_00:

And you've built an incredible organization around that set of knowledge and that set of beliefs about both what's possible and what's necessary. So I just wanted to thank you for sharing that in such a concise and clear format with us in the book, Breakthrough Principles, A Step-by-Step Guide to Building Stronger Schools. Gene, it's been a pleasure to speak with you on Principal Center Radio.

[23:12] SPEAKER_01:

Likewise. Thank you so much, Justin, and thank you for the great work you're doing. Have a great day.

[23:17] SPEAKER_02:

And now Justin Bader on high performance instructional leadership.

[23:21] SPEAKER_00:

So high performance instructional leaders, what did you take away from my conversation with Jean Desravenes about breakthrough principles? You know, I think we all want to achieve breakthroughs of different kinds in our schools and you, you know, may or may not work in a school that needs a dramatic turnaround. Uh, you may work in a setting where you're supervising a school that is, uh, Having a lot of problems due to turnover or due to just unique factors that need to be addressed. And you might be responsible for recruiting the person who is to lead those turnaround efforts. And one thing that I want to highlight from Jean's comments is that that is a team effort. So even if you are bringing in a new principal to lead that effort, recognize that a lot of the effort has already been taking place.

[24:08]

A lot of the talent you need is already in place in the school. And it's critical that whoever you bring in tap into that. Now, if you are in a setting where such a dramatic turnaround is not what's called for, I still wanna challenge you to take the disciplined approach, to take the systematic and purposeful approach that we talked about in our interview, toward whatever problems your school faces. The schools that New Leaders works with often have really struggled for many years and often are in danger of closing if they don't have a pretty dramatic turnaround. And over the course of working with those schools for several years and working on leadership development and preparing and recruiting the right teachers and the right leaders to be effective in that work, they are changing that.

[25:00]

One of the big takeaways, even if you're in, say, a very high socioeconomic school or even if you're in a private or international school setting, as I know many of our listeners are, take that approach of a systematic view of what needs to happen, that mindset that if this is the problem that needs to be solved and we are the people to solve it, What does that system require of us? What system do we need to design and what system do we need to implement in order to achieve the results that we want? And if you look at the circumstances in which many leaders are thriving and succeeding, they're doing hard work. But they're not doing it randomly. They're not doing it scattershot. They're not being superheroes, as they say in the book.

[25:45]

We're not looking for people who can simply do the impossible. We're looking for people who can define what's necessary, who can have a vision for what's possible, and then who have the self-discipline and the organizational discipline to actually make that happen. I think it's a huge difference in our perspective. And I hope that's a helpful takeaway for you from today's interview. And if you're looking for ways to identify the instructional leaders in your school, to identify the assets that you already have in place as a school, there's no better way to learn where your strengths lie as a school than as a leader to get into classrooms on a daily basis. If you haven't gone through the 21 Day Instructional Leadership Challenge, you can do so at instructionalleadershipchallenge.com and we would love to have you.

[26:35]

We've had more than 5,000 people from 50 countries around the world go through the challenge of getting into classrooms on a daily basis and learning where their strengths lie as a school, learning where their opportunities for improvement lie. So go to instructionalleadershipchallenge.com. If you've already done the challenge, you can just sign up again and we'll start you right over at the beginning and take you through that program to help you get into classrooms on a daily basis and learn as a leader. That is a free program. And again, that's at instructionalleadershipchallenge.com.

[27:05] Announcer:

Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.