National Alliance for Father Friendly Schools

[00:01] Announcer:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, helping you build capacity for instructional leadership. Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center, Dr. Justin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:13] SPEAKER_00:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to welcome to the program Keith Shoemaker. Keith is the founder and executive director of the National Alliance for Father-Friendly Schools, a nonprofit that creates a culture in which schools provide a welcoming and inclusive environment where fathers regularly engage and participate in the daily activities in local schools. Keith has spoken at hundreds of state and national conferences, including the American Association of School Administrators, National PTA, American School Counselors Association, and the National Association for Family School and Community Engagement. And he's authored several articles on father-friendly family engagement practices.

[00:49] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:51] SPEAKER_00:

Keith, welcome to Principal Center Radio. Well, thank you so much. This is an honor. Well, it's interesting to think about the challenges of welcoming fathers in schools. And I understand for you personally, this started with an experience of not feeling particularly welcome as a dad. Is that right?

[01:08] SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. And that is even the fact that my wife was a teacher on staff at the school. So I knew the people at the school and had socially interacted with people. But when I showed up as a dad, of course, my background is in the fire service. So I had a lot of time there. that I was able to volunteer at the school.

[01:29]

And when I started showing up, it just felt like when I showed up at the office, I kind of felt like I was creating an uncomfortable environment because the school front office staff, you know, they were used to generally only seeing dads when there was a problem or if there was something unusual going on. And then when they did see dads or they did have somebody volunteer, it was for manual labor, for carrying some boxes or setting up for the school event or what have you. So I started to volunteer at the time my oldest daughter was in kindergarten. She's now 25 and about to get married. So that tells you how long I've been doing this. But when I showed up in the classroom, the parapro, the teacher's assistant, whatever, you know, we called them parapros in that district.

[02:13]

She just mentioned to me one day, she said, it's just different when you're here. And I didn't quite know how to take it. Of course, I did know her. We were friends, but I didn't know if it was a compliment or a cut or exactly what she meant by that. So I kind of challenged her on it. I said, well, what do you mean?

[02:28]

She said, when you're the parent volunteer in the room, there's just a different air in the room. The boys seem to sit a little straighter. The girls seem to be a little more attentive. There's just a different air in the room. I said, really? I said, that's strange.

[02:39]

I said, is it like that when the other dads are here? And she said, I don't know. We've never had one before. And I looked around and I realized that at that school, at that time, even the custodian was a female. So they had a part-time. a PE coach and that was about it.

[02:53]

So realistically, unless the air conditioning filters needed changed in the building, these kids never saw a male role model around the building at all. So that weighed on my heart. I really wanted to do something and I did what most guys would do. I tried to reinvent the wheel. At least that's what I know now. I tried to start a daddy's club.

[03:11]

I tried to get involved with the PTA and just nothing ever really seemed to fit. And it was almost two years later, I saw a news story on ABC World News Tonight about a program that I now I've worked with for a while and I now partner with known as Watch Dogs. And they were working with a school in, I remember to this day, Olathe, Kansas. And they had a video and they were just showing how these dads were becoming engaged. And I was just enthralled by that. So I went to the principal and I said that I was interested in something like this.

[03:45]

And she said, well, she said, you really haven't given me anything to say yes to. Go back and find out what this is and tell me what it is. That principal, who was not my boss, was my wife's boss, has been one of my most awesome mentors to this day. I still keep in touch with her, but she really kind of pointed me in the right direction. So I looked up, I Googled watchdogs, I looked it up, I found out a little bit about it, called them, got some information, came back to her, sat down, gave her a short presentation, and we decided to go through the training together. So we sat in her conference room.

[04:23]

At the time, the training was just a conference call. And we went through the training together. We followed the steps of the program. And for our first event, I expected maybe five or 10 guys might be interested or might show up. And we could do some things throughout the school. Well, I had 285 RSVPs and I was kind of shocked.

[04:45]

I was worried because now not only do I have to feed 285 guys, but their kids as well. And it's a pizza night is their launch event. So I was in kind of a panic. I called out to the Watch Dogs National Office, which at the time was in Springdale, Arkansas. And it just so happened that the executive director answered the phone. And he and I sat and talked for about two and a half hours.

[05:09]

Don't really know why to this day still. But he decided that he wanted to not only support our program at our school, but he wanted to come out and meet me. And he booked a flight and flew from Kansas City to Atlanta to come meet me and support our event. Now that never happens. There's just not the bandwidth to be able to do that. But he and I connected.

[05:29]

He really loved what I did. And just like any school volunteer that actually steps up to do anything, you know, one day I'm the school leader, the next day I'm the county leader, the next day I'm the state leader. And then eventually I was hired as a national coordinator with that program and had a great tenure run with them. The plan actually was for me to go full time when I retired from the fire department, but that just logistically couldn't happen. But we had always worked side by side with another program that has a very similar goal called All Pro Dad, which had started at about the same time. Both of the programs have been now up and running for close to 27 years.

[06:07]

That program was started by Tony Dungy many, many years ago. So I... Flipped over to that program. I like to say I just got traded from one team to the other, playing the same position, wearing a different uniform.

[06:19]

I love that program. It's a very, very good, strong program. And I was with them for five years. So a year ago in November, I stepped away and said, I really kind of want to be an independent to be able to talk to schools, talk to school principals, find out what their goals are, see what they want to do. And then with my experience in these two programs, plus all the other programs I've worked side by side with over the years, be able to guide a principal to the right program that's going to lead them to the goals that they want, whether it's fully functional, highly engaged program like Watch Dogs, or if it's just getting them in the door and making those community connections like All Pro Dad, or if it's a regional program, I know several regional programs that do the same thing. So that's my story.

[07:06] SPEAKER_00:

Keith, I wonder if we could next talk about some of the factors that make all of this difficult, that make this something that doesn't just happen by default. And as a former elementary school principal, I concur precisely with your view of the situation, that it is rare for dads to get involved. It can even feel strange for dads to get involved. And certainly, we struggle to hire male staff. Most elementary schools are probably 90% female in terms of staffing. And, you know, dads of young kids tend to be working most of the time.

[07:39]

And it is rare that we have people show up and offer to get involved. And we certainly don't often think about how to be proactive about encouraging that type of involvement.

[07:50]

So with all that in mind, with this somewhat challenging landscape of maybe not having a ton of dads who are available to get involved or who are aware that they could be involved and not really knowing what to do, what are some good starting points for schools that don't want to turn dads away and want to become more welcoming to their involvement? Well, Justin, I love your line of thinking there.

[08:14] SPEAKER_01:

And realistically, the first thing we need to do is we need to go back and examine American culture. And if you think about your own educational experience and pretty much everybody's educational experiences, particularly at the elementary level, That is a very maternal-focused environment. And our memory is that school was the generally female teachers. As you said, we do try to get some male teachers in there, but they're having to carry the load for all the guys when they're in there. We also look at parent volunteering. Traditionally and culturally, it's been the moms.

[08:48]

We go back to 1897, when what we now know as the PTA was organized as the National Congress of Mothers, We need to understand that when we look at American culture, it is just seen as that school is mom's place and dad often feels like they're not welcome. I've several dads told me that, you know, I'm only allowed to go there when I'm voluntold and getting to understand that we need to change that culture. And until we have administrators that are willing to intentionally invite the dad's By name, we're continually not going to see that because what happens is when I talk to a school administrator, I say, how do you communicate with the families in your school community? And of course, the answer is always we communicate with the primary caregiver, either it's through email or peach jar or whatever the technology is.

[09:42]

That message and that communication is still mainly going to a maternal figure. It may be primarily mom, grandmother, auntie, somebody like that. So when that messaging is going out and they think they're communicating with the quote unquote family, they need to understand they're really not. And it even goes down to even when we do get some of the dads involved and we look at those email lists, I always, when I'm working with a school, I'm saying, let's take a look at that email list because you're in a lot of cases, you're going to have dad's name, but very clearly mom's email address. So understanding who it is that you're communicating with, when we send out a survey and I have people, I ask all the time, what is it? How is it that you gauge your communications with your school community?

[10:32]

How is it that you make these communications? How is it that you judge how you're doing? They always come back and they say, well, we did a survey. Well, I have four questions that I always come back with. Number one is who did you send the survey to? Who responded to that survey?

[10:50]

Think about who this is going to be now, okay? So who was represented? And then the last question is who never knew anything about the survey to even respond? So when you think about that, and I've talked to principals over the last 15 years, And time and time again, I hear we've tried, we've just given up. And it's just the status quo. It's just the way it is.

[11:17]

But when we look at things a little bit different, we change the messaging just a little bit. We have huge results. I'm doing a program here in the district where I live. We have 10 schools, 10 elementary schools in our school district, nine of which opted in for the program. And they are seeing huge results. I had one school in the toughest part of town had 200 dads show up.

[11:38]

Our smallest, tiniest K-8 school, only 400 students, had 30 guys show up, sign up. They're regularly volunteering in the classrooms. So it isn't that it's impossible. It's just we've got to break down that culture that we've seen over and over and over again. And I know people attribute this quote to Einstein, but I've never been able to prove that it was Einstein that said this. But if you keep doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results, it's just insane.

[12:06]

So what we do through our organization and through the organizations we partner with is we help principals see past that vision of it's not possible. One of the things that the terminologies I use is after the donut, because I've had principals tell me, we tried, we did a donuts with dad, we had 300 guys show up and then we never heard from them again. Well, there's a very good reason for that because of all you're offering in family engagement to those fathers and father figures is a donut. The engagement is only going to last as long as the donut does.

[12:42]

If you wanna figure out what you can do after the donut, it's important to have that engagement consistently throughout the school year. Multiple opportunities to be engaged. It's not a one and done. It's you can volunteer anytime. or once a month come in, have some engagement with our students. It has to be consistent.

[13:05]

It has to be intentional. And when you do that, we see amazing results. You know, once again, we're getting ready to launch for the new school year. We're going to be doing all of the elementary schools in our school district where I live and I'm partnering. I don't represent the district, but I'm partnering with them to be able to get this done. And then in the new school year, we're going to be launching programs in all of the middle and high schools.

[13:26]

And that program is really, really showing some promise as well. So is when it comes down to it, the first thing that we have to do is take our stereotypes, take our culture, take what we believe dads are and what they do, the belief that they're not there and that they're going away. Put that away because the Census Bureau tells us that even though popular culture tells us dads are running away, dads are not here. So many students don't have dads. Census Bureau tells us almost 80 percent of men that are in that range of childbearing years are living with their children. So the numbers are improving and those numbers are better than they were when I started this work 15 years ago.

[14:10]

We're moving in the right direction.

[14:11] SPEAKER_00:

Well, Keith, one big theme that comes up for me, based on what you've said so far, is around what we ask dads to do. And it strikes me that perhaps we shouldn't necessarily be asking dads to do exactly the same things as moms are currently doing. Maybe those needs are covered. Maybe they're different. opportunities to contribute. And I think about in our community, one of the big opportunities for volunteering when your kids are in elementary school is helping with class parties.

[14:37]

And frankly, I would rather be chased by wild dogs than help with a class party because I just don't know what I'm supposed to do. Am I supposed to pick up trash? I would rather pick up trash than just stand there and do nothing. And often I think we don't really know what we want dads to do. Dads don't really know what we want them to do. And yet I also think of situations where a call went out, we need a bucket truck and some people who can weld and do concrete work to put up this new sign that was purchased for one of the athletic fields.

[15:06]

I mean, there were 30 guys out there immediately helping with that because it was a specific ask, a literally concrete ask that drew on skills they knew they had, they could contribute, they could get it done. And it wasn't this kind of ambiguous, hey, can you stand around awkwardly while kids eat cookies? It's a different kind of ask. Do we need to be making different kind of requests from dads? Do we need to be asking for a different type of help? What's your sense on that question?

[15:32] SPEAKER_01:

So I would say if you think about it, and I'm saying this man to man, because you'll understand men are mission driven and task oriented. So when you invite a dad, father figure, grandfather, uncle, I use the term dad very loosely, by the way, when you invite that father figure into the building, they're not going to just kind of wander around and fluff things here, you know, like the moms do and find things to do. it's really got to be very specific and targeted. This is what I want. This is how you'll know you're done. And when you're done, have a nice day and I'll let you know when I need something else.

[16:04]

And that's where programs, particularly like Watch Dogs, have been so successful over the years because it is a dedicated schedule all day long. And we try to tell the schools That the schools that work the guys the hardest are the ones that are the most successful. So like you said, a guy is not going to want to sit in the office all day long or sit in the library all day long, or even play in the gym all day long. Like you, you would think a guy might want to, but when a dad gets a chance to sit in a classroom and support a teacher while a teacher is pulling students for whatever reading to the students. or even working one-on-one with a student, obviously within the view of the staff member. But when a dad has a chance to sit there and help a struggling student, maybe a student that's not their own child, but a struggling student that is struggling with some concept, whatever it may be.

[16:57]

But when that dad looks across that table and sees that light bulb moment, that second that the student finally grasps that, concept and they know they're the one that did it, they understand why teachers teach and they gain a tremendous amount of respect for our teachers and understanding because what I've said since I've started this work is if a parent is trying to support their child's education based only on the memory of their own education, they're so far off base, they don't even have a clue of what's going on. But when they get a chance to step in the hallway, get a chance to step in the classroom, work side by side with the teacher, get an assignment from the teacher. I mean, I love doing sight words with kindergarteners and first graders. That was that was so enjoyable for me as a guy that ran in and out of burning buildings.

[17:50]

Right. I mean, I dealt with life or death situations on a regular basis. But for me to sit there with a kindergartner and just let that child smile, it just really. cemented what I'm doing now to this day, because I want to be able to share that opportunity with families, with dads, with grandfathers, with uncles all across the country, and to be able to allow schools to engage large numbers of volunteers that they've probably overlooked and not even realized that they were there. I mean, every school has a cadre of guys that want to be engaged. They just don't know how.

[18:28]

But when you can use a structured program with the resources to say, okay, moms are here. Moms are great. They're doing the class parties because I'm with you. I don't want to do a class party. But For them to be able to step into the classroom, for them to be able to create a network of guys that are supporting the school and the school community, it really strengthens the school community. And statistically, we've seen student achievement improved.

[18:55]

We've seen attendance improve. We've seen behavior improve just by having those extra adults in the building on a regular, consistent basis.

[19:03] SPEAKER_00:

I'm glad you mentioned some forms of academic support because, yeah, again, often we think of dads in terms of physical labor. But, you know, being able to sit down and work through a list of sight words or letters and sounds that a particular student needs help with, I think, is a great opportunity. And there are no schools that don't need that, right? Like every school has kids that need that one-on-one help, that help in the classroom or, you know, an extra class. an extra person to help the teacher with the too many things that they have to do.

[19:30] SPEAKER_01:

I want to mention just a simple example that every school across America could use. One week a year, we have a Read Across America Week. That is a great opportunity. When you're putting together your Read Across America Week volunteers and who you're reaching out to, reach out to the dads, reach out to the local fire department, police department, Get those male role models in the building, because I tell you, if you can get a chance to have a dad, even if they're just coming in to sit down to read one book, that can change the dynamic of your school and of a family and reaching out and engaging organizations. that are in your community, I mean, it's part of their goal is to be engaged with the schools. I always said as a retired fireman, I always say there's two houses in every community and that's the schoolhouse and the firehouse and they need to be connected.

[20:22]

So this is a great opportunities for you to be able to do that by something every school is gonna be looking at.

[20:30] SPEAKER_00:

Keith, one issue I wanted to ask about, because I know this can be an awkward one for schools, is that if we ask for dads, we have to acknowledge that a lot of kids are not living with their dads. The person who plays a father figure role in their life may not be their actual dad. How do you help schools navigate that issue? Because I think one of the reasons we default to a mom or a female caregiver is that almost all kids have one. I think the skew is pretty strong there. It's certainly not 100%, but- you know if you had to pick one you know most of the time you're going to reach a mom and that's not always the case with with dad so how do we deal with that issue that you know simply some of our students do not live with their dads

[21:09] SPEAKER_01:

One of the things that I suggest, particularly when I'm working with a principal, is that if you're, number one, as we said before, if you're going to engage this population, this group of people, you have to call them by name. You specifically have to say father, figure, dad, something along that line. But the other thing that I tell them is that upfront from day one, when you are going to announce this to your school, to your students, that you're going to be doing something, You have to say that regardless of what your family structure looks like, you are absolutely welcome and included to bring whoever your family feels comfortable with. So it may be a grandfather, it may be an uncle, it may be a neighbor. One of the school districts I worked with, they even went as far as connecting students with staff at the central office who came to the event and sat with the student and stood up and said that they were proud of them.

[22:02]

So it's not that difficult to be inclusive and still be intentional and inclusive of the fathers and father figures. It's just a matter of making sure that your language is doing that. And one of the things I was just working on a project this morning is a template that we are going to be providing to principals that when they announce their program, it jumps right into that and says, I want to be clear that this program is for every student in this school and every family is welcome and included.

[22:33] SPEAKER_00:

When you talk about a program, you're not talking about schools starting from scratch, reinventing the wheel. You have a number of programs that you've worked with, that you've partnered with. that schools can pick up and run with fairly quickly. Is that right?

[22:45] SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And the one thing that I see, and I try to discourage school administrators from, as you said, reinventing the wheel. The programs that we work with are well vetted, have been around for over 25 years. Each of them, they are very simple and the structures of the program are very well put together. They are Very simple for an administrator to pick up and run with them. The training for the two main programs that we work with are simple online videos.

[23:17]

Walks them through how to run the program. I mentioned Watch Dogs. Watch Dogs is set up so basically you have two events per school year. Bribe them in the door with food. In the fall it's pizza and in the spring it's donuts. get them in the door and say, okay, we know you're busy.

[23:33]

We know your work. We know that you can't just come in, go like some of the moms can do. Of course, we see more and more moms are in the workforce now. So that group is even dwindling as well. But, you know, be very clear with them as you know, we're not going to eat up your life. We really want to be able to give you opportunities that are comfortable with your work schedule and are not going to cost you a lot of money.

[23:57]

So we want to make sure that they because every parent, whenever you get an email, a letter, anything from the school, they always have two questions. How much time and how much money is this going to cost me? We tell them, be upfront. If it's the Watch Dogs program, we're asking you to take one day out of the whole school year, however you can, if it's a vacation day or paid time off or whatever, and just come into the school and we're going to put you to work all day long. The All Pro Dad Chapters program is an excellent program. It has a very strong, robust curriculum.

[24:26]

The idea behind that program is the fathers and father figures come once a month to the school before school. And have a quick breakfast. We'd love to feed the world, but you got to figure out how you're going to get a muffin or whatever to them for that event. But it's real simple. The dads come in with their students. They sometimes they bring students, friends or whatever.

[24:48]

Maybe if that student doesn't have a dad or whatever, but they sit there. The adult stands up and out loud and intentionally says, professors that they're proud of their student. And sometimes that is such a dramatic impact. Sometimes I've seen some big dudes, you know, break down and cry because they didn't realize that they are not telling their child that they love them and support them and that they're proud of them enough. And it kind of changes the dynamic of the family. Then there's always a character topic.

[25:16]

They walk through the character topic, see a, you know, see a short video, have a one-on-one conversation that's prompted by a discussion card, and then dad heads off to work. The student goes to class. And the other thing I like about that is three days later, the dad gets an email that reinforces whatever the character topic was. So it keeps that going. And as I said, the important thing is to be consistent throughout the school year. You can't just have a one and done event and then expect to maintain family engagement after that.

[25:47]

But I do want to mention that for schools that have Title I programs, obviously, and of course we're in the midst of some changes, but I don't have any doubt that the family engagement element and requirement is not going to change. It's going to be required because it's so important. And the nice thing about these programs is that you can actually use that data that you collect from your establishing the need. You've made an outreach by establishing the program. You can show the response and you can show the attendance. So you can very easily take that data that you've used for this program.

[26:24]

Don't just throw it away and think it's just a cutesy thing, a daddy daughter dance kind of thing. This is actual strategies to help you meet your compliance goals. So to be able to use that data and drop that into your 1116 reporting is gold. I mean, you can't beat that and it will help you, you know, very much as far as meeting those compliance goals.

[26:47] SPEAKER_00:

So Keith, if people want to learn more about some of the options that are out there and maybe get some advice on how to start something in their school, where can they go online?

[26:57] SPEAKER_01:

Well, first of all, what I talk about, what I do, it doesn't matter what kind of school you're at. If you are at a public school, private school, charter school, overseas school, military school, we've worked with DOD schools. So if you are a school administrator and you are looking to get that level of engagement, the National Alliance for Father-Friendly Schools can help you. So go to our webpage, it's fatherfriendlyschools.org. You can also follow us on Facebook.

[27:25]

We're actually going to be doing a little bit more. We're changing our dynamic, trying to do a little more videos as far as guidance and what you're doing. But let me tell you something, and I say this to any principal out there, you are not alone. You are not by yourself. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. We've been doing this stuff for 25 years.

[27:45]

I personally have been doing it for 15. We can help you. It is really not that hard. And these programs are set up and put together to make it easy for you. You know, one of the questions that I get all the time is who's going to run this thing. We'll even help you with your volunteer leadership development to figure out is what's best for your community.

[28:04]

Is it a staff member that's going to run it? Is it a community partner is it a parent volunteer we can walk you through all that so if you go to fatherfriendlyschools.org you can follow us on Facebook I believe we're actually doing Instagram now or you can call me direct at area code 910-294-0332 that's 910-294-0332

[28:30] SPEAKER_00:

Heath Shoemaker, thank you so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio. It's been a pleasure.

[28:33] SPEAKER_01:

Thank you so much. I've enjoyed it. I hope we get a chance to connect with somebody and really give some families some opportunities that they may not have now.

[28:40] Announcer:

Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.

[29:53] SPEAKER_01:

Please, this has been great. Thank you, Justin.