Answering Why: Unleashing Passion, Purpose, and Performance in Younger Generations

[00:01] SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center and Champion of High Performance Instructional Leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:15] SPEAKER_01:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to be joined today by Mark C. Perna. Mark is an international expert on Generations Y and Z, and he's the founder and CEO of TFS. a consulting firm helping educators and employers unleash the tremendous potential of today's young people, both in the classroom and on the job. Mark is the author of Answering Why, Unleashing Passion, Purpose, and Performance in Younger Generations, which we're here to talk about today.

[00:44] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:46] SPEAKER_01:

So Mark, welcome to Principal Center Radio.

[00:48] SPEAKER_02:

It's great to be here, Justin. Thanks so much for having me.

[00:50] SPEAKER_01:

So we're getting the sense in our society that there is a difference between the way that, say, the baby boomer generation or the Generation X approaches work compared to younger generations like millennials or Generation Y or millennials. the upcoming Generation Z. And as your work is demonstrating, there is a major set of implications for that in school, in the workplace, in society. So I wonder if we could start by just kind of framing that issue and talk about why this is such a pressing issue for organizations.

[01:22] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, thank you, Justin. It's a great topic and a great question. So, you know, I see this as a great generational divide between the way the older generations look at things and the way the younger generations look at things. And really, there's a stark difference between the two. And, you know, when I speak in front of groups across North America, I always try to get the point across that it's for young people today, it's all about vision and getting the answer to the question, why? They have to know why they're doing everything.

[01:49]

anything they're doing. And so whether it's in a classroom, whether it's in the workforce, they have to have that vision. And what's more is, you know, the reason there is this big disconnect is that, you know, older generations typically come from a position of, you know, work was kind of our life and then it kind of just set up our lifestyle. Whereas today it's all about lifestyle and work is just a means to that end. And so for young people, if they see a vision, if they see a want to in their life, they will move heaven and earth to get to that. But our biggest challenge as, you know, educators, employers, and even parents is getting them to want something.

[02:26]

And so that's kind of what is set up in the book is, you know, how do we unleash that passion, purpose, and performance in young people as they try to create a vision in their life where they want to go? But it has to connect to lifestyle. It has to connect to want to. Once you get that, you can move them further and faster than you ever could if they don't know where they're going. And so, This difference between the generations is, you know, let's face it, older generations think the younger generations are missing out and the younger generations think the older generations are missing out. And it's just a different view and perspective of where each are coming from.

[02:59]

And as we bridge that generational divide that sits between them, we can then start moving young people forward. And so that's really what the book is all about. You know, I was really kind of inspired to write Answering Why. Because I feel that they are exceptional generations. And I largely talk about two generations, and it's Generation Y millennials and Generation Z coming up right behind them. Most things you read out there today is kind of negatively slanted.

[03:24]

They're lazy. They're entitled. And I go completely the other way. I think they're the most incredible generations to come down the pike. I think they're the most intelligent, resourceful, and pitbull-like generations that we've ever seen. Again, when they see that want to, they'll move heaven and earth to get there.

[03:39]

They just need to see it. They need the answer to why are we doing things the way we're doing them. And then they buy in and they're really ready to move forward.

[03:47] SPEAKER_01:

And I think we've all noticed that passion or that intensity. But I think there's also this common experience of identifying that intensity or that passion that young people have and just thinking, you know, I'm not sure that really connects to anything that, you know, the marketplace needs or that the real world needs. And, you know, and I think that's kind of a generational challenge and always has been. the kids these days kind of feeling. But I think there is a very real concern among parents, among educators, that the things that kids are interested in or the things that young adults are interested in are not necessarily going to be helpful to them. And I think a lot of parents would say, you know, my kid is very into Minecraft or my students are very into playing this video game or doing this thing that they seem to be extremely passionate about, but I'm not sure that that actually connects to the real world in any way that's going to serve them.

[04:37]

So how do we kind of bridge that and say, okay, it's great that you're passionate about these things, you know, follow your passions and your dreams and, you know, make the mark that you want to make on the world. But at the same time, the world does care what mark you make on it. You know what I mean?

[04:52] SPEAKER_02:

Sure. Absolutely. It's true. Well, it all boils down to for young people today, it's experience is everything. they want to have remarkable experiences. They're looking for experiences.

[05:03]

That's why, you know, things like Minecraft, I mean, that is a tremendous experience. You know, I tell young people all the time, you know, they go out, they spend $59.95 for a video game and they'll go and they'll lock themselves in their bedroom for the next three months and they will play it nonstop because the experience of doing that, you know, just kicks off everything inside them that this is fun, this is enjoyable. And then you juxtapose that against, you know, the school experience in many cases, not all cases, but in many cases, can be significantly less than that experience. And so we have raised them to want experiences. We've raised them to travel the world, to give back.

[05:37]

They're environmentally conscious. They're looking for all of these things and they're trying to kind of latch on, if you will, to that experience. You know, young people today, I'm probably a little bit older than you are, Justin, and it was like, you know, I lived in a nice suburban community growing up, but we didn't travel nearly like young people are traveling today. You know, people are, you know, at a very young age are traveling and seeing the world and seeing all. And I think it's fabulous that they get a chance and an opportunity to do this. But it sets them up to simply look for those kinds of opportunities to have those experiences.

[06:09]

And I think sometimes that's what creates this issue and this challenge. for getting young people to understand that they've got to kind of step up, you know, so if I could, if I could kind of take it this way a little bit, you know, I talk a lot about professional skills, you know, a lot of people around the country call them soft skills, you know, things like work ethic and punctuality and leadership and communication and a work life balance, stress management, networking, all these things are what we call in this country, you know, kind of a general term is soft skills. I'm actually trying to change the name. I'm on a stump across this country to change the name to professional skills because those are the things, that we need to be teaching young people at a very young age. They need to learn these things starting much younger and work them through. But we really spend very little time trying to teach them that.

[06:53]

Young people today won't change. They won't see a light at the end of the tunnel for their lives. They won't start moving in the direction of solving some of these things until they hear the Branch Creek in their life. And Branch Creek is a metaphor that I use to kind of describe being too comfortable. You know, if you can remember, you know, Justin, if you ever climbed a tree and you go out, you know, as high as you can and you go out on this really firm limb and you're looking at the world around you and the life looks great until the limb underneath you cracks. You literally can hear it creak underneath you.

[07:25]

At that moment, there are three things that happen. One, you become singularly focused, right? Doesn't matter what stresses and challenges you had getting into the tree. You're now focused on the task at hand. Second thing that happens is you start strategic planning. How are you going to get out of this?

[07:37]

You know, how do you get back to the safety of the trunk? What are you going to grab? Where are you going to fall? third thing that happens is you take action. In fact, in many cases, I submit that you take massive action. Well, all three of those things happen at one moment, you know, and it's because we became incredibly uncomfortable.

[07:54]

It's in that discomfort that we focus, we plan, and we take action. Young people today hardly, if ever, hear the Branch Creek in their lives because so many kids are very comfortable. We've created a very comfortable existence for them. you know, being able to sit in your bedroom and play that video game for three months is they're very comfortable doing so. They don't need to go do something else. So in many cases, once there's a want to, you become uncomfortable because there's a fear of loss and a sense of urgency to that.

[08:21]

And so that's what drives people forward. That's what takes them to the next level.

[08:25] SPEAKER_01:

I'm glad you mentioned the idea of kind of the luxury of being able to do what you want. And I think as parents, a lot of us are fearing that, have we made our kids too comfortable? Have we lost that sense of urgency? And I think decades ago when there was the sense that if you're going to go to college or chart your own path in a career, you're going to need to get to work on that, you know, get a job at the grocery store, you know, get a summer job, get a job after school and really work toward your goals. And there's a sense today, I think that working toward your goals looks different. And that, you know, as parents, we should be providing certain things to, you know, to make that path easier.

[09:04]

But, you know, at the same time, fear that we're making the path too easy and there's no one to hike on it now that we've paved it. So how do we kind of balance that tension between, you know, supporting kids and allowing them the time to pursue, you know, what they're interested in or the opportunity to travel with that kind of work ethic that, you know, earlier generations developed the hard way, I guess I would say.

[09:28] SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I think it boils down to simple. We cannot do everything for them. They have to learn what failure means. They have to learn what making a mistake means. I mean, you know, when you and I, you know, grew up, we spent a great deal of time making mistakes. I mean, my landscape behind me is littered with an amazing amount of mistakes.

[09:46]

I mean, everything that I've done, I mean, you know, but all of those things today I cherish because they're what has made me who I am today and the impact that I'm able to have. with educators and employers and parents across the country. So if we never give them an opportunity to have those kinds of Branch Creek moments that forces them to focus, plan, and take action, there is no reason for them to focus, plan, and take action. So for the kind of person that you're talking about where the parents are frustrated and I get a lot of people that come up to me after presentations and thank me and say, my gosh, I finally see a way through to my son or my daughter or, you know, our family. And I've had people crying and wrapping their arms around me, not because anything I said was, you know, monumentally, you know, but I just take the common sense of if you continue to mow down all of their obstacles and you continue to make their life easy at some point, their life will become difficult.

[10:46]

It is for all of us. We all have challenges and things that, that come up and, and grab us. And if they're not prepared, I've always believed that the goal of every parent in America is to make their son or daughter self-reliant and independent. You know, I've done that with my two kids. You know, I've got two kids now that are 31 and 29. You know, a great example of some of the things we're talking about here, Justin, is, you know, in my own life, you know, I was a single dad with two kids and raising them.

[11:13]

And they were comfortable, man. They were comfortable. We lived in a beautiful home. It was just the three of us and a dog and you know, they'd come home every day and they'd play video games. They're exactly what we're talking about. And my youngest son, Nick, you know, hated going to school, didn't want to wake up every morning, had a different ailment every day.

[11:32]

He missed the maximum number of days as freshmen and sophomore year of high school. And it was tough, man. It was tough getting him to go to school because he was so comfortable. And on one day, everything changed because he visited a programming and software development class and found that he wanted to be a software engineer. And the day he made that decision, he started to plan accordingly. And he went from a 1.5 grade point average his sophomore year of high school to a 2.5, went to college, succeeded in college.

[12:01]

Today, he's 29 years old. He makes $85,000 a year. And he lives on his own. He's self-reliant, independent. And he travels to every Comic-Con he can get to anywhere in the country. And he's living the lifestyle he has always wanted to live.

[12:13]

Why? Because on that day when he decided what he wanted, you know, something he was deeply interested in, that's when his branch creaked. He focused, he planned, he took action. And that was the result of that. And millions of kids can experience that same kind of thing if we give them the opportunities to become uncomfortable and to actually want something and then support the journey, but don't do it for them. And I think that's the big disconnect.

[12:37]

In many cases today, parents are doing things for their kids and they're trying to get them, you know, to achieve at the absolute highest level and they're pitching in too much. And they've got to realize that young people have to have that failure experience because that's where growth, that's where learning, that's where everything happens. How did you and I, you know, find out that we didn't want to put our hand on a burner one day? You know, I mean, you touched it. It was really hot. And you said, I'm never doing that again.

[13:01]

You know, that was a Branch Creek moment in a second, you know, and that's how it kind of plays out. in the younger generations today.

[13:08] SPEAKER_01:

And the concept of stakes, I think, is kind of built into that. And back to video games as an example, kids are used to resilience in playing a video game. If they're playing Fortnite, they're OK to die 1,000 times a day and keep trying. But in terms of those stakes in the real world, like this is something I want. And if I don't take action, I'm not going to get it. And if I do take action, I am going to get it.

[13:30]

it seems like that's what really drives kids rather than this sense of duty or the sense of, well, you're supposed to do X, you know, you're supposed to work hard in school and then go to college and then get a good job. You know, that supposed to path is not really motivating to young people in the way that, you know, maybe it never was, maybe, maybe that's never worked. But at least we've believed that there was a defined path for everybody that you were supposed to just kind of Work hard and do the right thing and eventually good rewards would come. But yeah, I just feel like young people today don't believe that story if it was ever true.

[13:59] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I'm not sure that they believe that story either. Although there's a caveat to that. Generation Z, at least every early indication of Generation Z, which is the youngest generation coming up now, they're more pragmatic than their millennial counterparts were. And so I, I think they're actually concerned about, you know, they may not necessarily always be outwardly, but I think internally they're extremely concerned about where things are going to go. They grew up in a post nine 11 world. They grew up in a post 2008 financial meltdown.

[14:27]

They have seen their parents and friends of family and, you know, and people they know, you know, some have gone off to college and were successful, but couldn't get a job. Someone off to college were successful and got a job. Someone off to college failed out or left, you know, for whatever reason. didn't finish and now they're doing something else or they're successful or that, you know, and they're, they're watching all of these things go on. And I think they're going to be the generation that finds the most unconventional ways to get places because it's going to require their creativity to be able to do it and make it affordable. College is an expensive venture today.

[15:01]

And I am a hundred percent behind every student going to college who wants to go there. But I tell young people and parents and community members all the time is it, but you know, if you're going to go there, You need to invest wisely, go with passion, go with purpose, but make sure you get it done, you know, because the landscape of college is an expensive place to go and not complete and get what you want out of it. And you need to know why you're going there. It's kind of a concept that I call education with purpose is you need to have purpose in why you're going there or you shouldn't go or you should put it off or you should do something else. And there are lots of options out there today for young people to travel down. You know, not everybody needs a four-year degree.

[15:42]

There's wonderful two-year, you know, associates degrees. There's apprenticeships. There's, you know, advanced certifications and licensures and, you know, various ways for young people today to be gainfully employed and create self-reliance and independence in their life. My concern in this country is we don't spend enough time with young people, you know, in the middle school and high school arena. where we share what some of those possibilities are. I'm not a fan of putting everybody through one avenue.

[16:10]

I think all avenues need to be opened up to students so that they're picking something based on their own unique interests, talents, and abilities. You know, my son, we were talking about, you know, playing video games. It's come up several times in the conversation. And my son, Nick, loved to play video games. Man, he was constantly, Justin, involved in a video game. And he said, you know, early on, I want to be a video game designer.

[16:32]

Well, today he's a software engineer, you know, I mean, so, so there are those kids out there where these things can become viable alternatives. and careers that are quite satisfying too. So I just wanted to point that out.

[16:46] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think college is a great example of one of those kind of follow the established path kinds of things that adults have always told young people, work hard in school, go to college. But it is something that to hear you reconnect that to purpose, I just think that's so critical that, as you said, students have a reason to go to college. And it's a very expensive place to figure out that it's not where you want to be, right? Yeah. Oh my gosh, yeah.

[17:12]

So expensive, you know, and not the only option anymore. You know, still for so many students makes an enormous difference and opens new opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be there. But yeah, that purpose is so critical.

[17:24] SPEAKER_02:

You know, I came up with this concept, education with purpose, and we just kind of just touched on that. And education with purpose to me was kind of a founding principle that, you know, again, it doesn't matter to me what avenue or pathway a young person takes. as long as they take it with purpose. There's some reason that they're going, whether it's, you know, whether it's college, whether it's career, whether it's entrepreneurship, you know, wherever it is, they're going there because of purpose. And I thought, well, how do we describe that to young people? And I came up with this concept called the career tree and the career tree, it's a pretty simple concept.

[17:55]

You know, the career tree, uh, looks like one of those majestic trees that, you know, you can see anywhere in the country, you know, pick just big oak tree. And, uh, the trunk of the tree is any program pathway or classroom, you know, it's whatever someone is taking. That trunk or, you know, program or pathway leads to a branch system above it. The branches represent all the careers and occupations that are possible. And I break down the, you know, the branch system into three key areas. The first and lower, you know, closer to the trunk is the entry-level career area, which means that when you're finished, you know, going through this program or pathway, you can unlock these kinds of careers and occupations.

[18:29]

You don't need any additional experience or education to get there. The middle of the tree are the technical careers. And these are all the things to unlock that level, the careers and occupations. You know, maybe you need a two-year associate's degree, maybe complete an apprenticeship or some kind of advanced certification or a licensure or, you know, something along those lines or some kind of specialized training. But it's just, you need more education or experience to unlock that level. And then if you want to unlock the top of the tree, that's professional careers.

[18:53]

So that's, you know, could be a four-year degree. Maybe it's a master's, a PhD, an MD, a JD, or some kind of specialized training. It's just additional education and experience. So, you know, as a young person looks at the tree and as they start looking at different pathways and things, they can connect to, hey, what kind of a position would you like? You know, I'll give you a great example. You know, if you're in a typical high school in America, you know, a lot of them have automotive technology programs, you know, and most parents are scared to death for their son or daughter to take an automotive program because they're afraid you're going to turn their son or daughter into a grease monkey.

[19:26]

But the truth is, if you take that automotive program and you aspire to going to college If you look on that tree, you can unlock things like automotive engineer, automotive designer. There's all kinds of things in the four-year degree arena that would unlock to that student who has that aspiration. And what's cool about the tree is it really does set up this dialogue and narrative with young people that if a student wants to be an automotive engineer or designer, they go into that automotive program. They complete it. They become ASC certified. They can now work in the field and make excellent money after high school.

[20:01]

and after they can make money, which actually funds their higher education, which allows them to lower their debt. They also are learning all the skills. They know the inner workings of a car. They have become a tremendous, they've created for themselves a tremendous competitive advantage to get into that automotive engineering or design program. And so where most people think the automotive program is less, I'm here to tell you that that automotive program is significantly more in high school because it takes their academic rigor, combines it with technical skills and gives them the professional skills necessary to go everywhere they want to go with a competitive advantage. And that's really what the career tree sets up.

[20:35]

It kind of changes the paradigm of how we think about academic rigor and technical skills and professional skills that allows a student to create a competitive advantage and then ultimately go off with purpose. Now they're going off to a four year degree for a reason. You know, they're going there to accomplish something very specific. And so that's kind of how the tree came about. It's become wildly successful everywhere it goes. So I'm excited about where it is.

[20:58] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, it's a great concept. And I think that idea of an entry level job being where you start, but not being where you end up, again, to go for the third or fourth time to go back to video games, you know, I think a lot of kids see, you know, I can currently play video games, I am good at this. And there are these people, I don't know if all of our listeners know this, but there are these live streamers who play video games, you know, before a live audience on the internet and make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. There's a handful of people who do that. And of course, it's very inspiring to all of the other players who make zero dollars a month doing that. But I think crossing that bridge, you know, it's just kind of, you know, I wish that could be me and there's not a path.

[21:37]

I think with that concept of the career tree, we can help kids see, okay, There is an entry-level job. You can start now at the age of 18, or you can start now at the age of 16 working toward that entry-level job, but you don't have to stop there. And I remember reading Harry Wong's book, The First Days of School, a classic book that most teachers are given in college. I think millions and millions of teachers have been given Harry Wong's The First Days of School, just a great book on classroom management. But one of the things he says in that book that I will never forget is, He says, you can have any job you want in education in the next five years. And when I read that, I think I was probably a classroom teacher or a pre-service teacher.

[22:16]

And I thought, five years, that doesn't seem like very long to have any job you want in education. But I think the sense of imagination, the sense of possibility has to be there in order to drive that career path. If a kid is interested in cars, maybe they'll start by changing oil. Maybe they'll start by making minor repairs. But that industry doesn't stop there. There's farther to go with that.

[22:41]

So it absolutely does not have to be a career stuck in an entry-level job. So I appreciate you're kind of describing that path as a tree that can branch, but that you do have to climb. You do have to educate yourself. You do have to gain skills. You do have to put yourself in a position where you can gain more experience. And from there, you can go anywhere you want.

[23:02] SPEAKER_02:

Well, exactly. I mean, you know, and really what I try to set up and I talk about around the country, I was invited to speak at Harvard several years ago. And as part of that speech, you know, I talked about we have this notion in this country that we should be making kids college and career ready. And whereas it's a wonderful phrase and I buy into that 100 percent, the challenge in America is that nobody reads the word and in between the word college and the word career. Most people read it as a pathway, college, career, ready. And so I spoke at Harvard about we shouldn't be making kids college and career ready in this country.

[23:36]

We should be making them career ready, period. Sure, there's a whole bunch of careers that go through four-year universities and masters and PhDs and the such. There's a whole bunch of careers and occupations that go through that. But there's also some wonderful ones through a two-year associate's degree at community colleges and state colleges or technical colleges. There's also all these apprenticeships and certifications and licensures. And there's so many different ways Why are we highlighting just one?

[24:03]

We should highlight them all. Let a student choose what's the right path for them. And you said it beautifully is that, you know, where you end up is not where you start. Where you start is just the first thing. You know, you and I have both made, you know, career adjustments in our lives where, you know, we started one place. We went to the next thing.

[24:23]

We went to the next thing. And so, you know, locking students into this long term view isn't something we need to do, but we need to get them to see what's possible and then start down the path. And as they go down the path, they can adjust the path at any time. And that's really what the career tree is designed to do for middle schools to high schools, you know, on into college to connect the dots. And then in some parts of the country where I was yesterday in upstate New York, actually tying the career tree then into business and industry in the local economic development area of a region. So that students not only are seeing what's possible in middle schools and high schools and giving them the professional skills necessary, but then also connecting that so that if they leave, they can also see the opportunities that are available within a region to keep populations from shrinking and keeping people local because there are tremendous opportunities.

[25:10]

And again, nobody knows those. So it's kind of connecting the dots and becoming the connective tissue amongst everything that's going on.

[25:16] SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I think that addresses the challenge of employers perpetually saying, we can't find the people we need. You know, we can't find... young people with the skills who are willing to work, who are willing to learn, who are going to do the work that we need to be done. And then young people saying, I can't find a job.

[25:31]

I can't find something that's a fit for me. You know, and I think just having those conversations locally and figuring out what it looks like to get young people into those career trees or those, those career pathways, such an important conversation happening in communities around the country.

[25:46] SPEAKER_02:

And it's gotten bigger. If I can jump in just for a second, Justin. So, I mean, you know, I, I address this, what we call the skills gap in America and, And this is part of the challenge. You know, there are 6.7 million jobs in America right now that can't be filled. There aren't people to fill them.

[26:02]

So the people who are unemployed today, you know, the millions of people who are unemployed and millions of jobs that are open, but the people who are unemployed can't do the jobs that are open. And so many of these are in high demand career fields. Everything from aerospace to health care to construction and manufacturing is huge. I mean, all of these areas are screaming unemployment. for qualified people within all parts of their organization. So they're constantly looking to close the skills gap.

[26:27]

But I make the contention in my book, answering why that, you know, we don't have a skills gap in America. We really have an awareness gap in America. And if we close the awareness gap, the skills gap will take care of itself. It's just, we've got to open up, you know, the understanding of all of these different things that are possible. And then students, once they see a vision and a wants you in their life, they'll start performing at a higher level. My son, Once he understood he wanted to be a software engineer, his academic performance soared.

[26:53]

Why? Because he saw finally the relevance of academic knowledge paired with what he was going to do moving forward as a software engineer. And that created tremendous performance for him.

[27:04] SPEAKER_01:

And that's what we want to see for our students. We want to see every kid get connected and get fired up about a direction for their career. So the book is Answering Why, Unleashing Passion, Purpose, and Performance in Younger Generations. Mark, thanks so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio. If people want to learn more about your work or get in touch with you, where's the best place for them to find you online?

[27:25] SPEAKER_02:

Justin, they can reach me at markcperna.com. That's M-A-R-K-C-P-E-R-N-A dot com. They can learn all about the book and some of what I do. If they want to learn about the career tree, they can jump off from that website and they can check it out on my business site. So that's the place to go.

[27:43] SPEAKER_01:

Thanks so much. Great to speak with you, Mark.

[27:45] SPEAKER_02:

Thank you, Justin.

[27:46] Announcer:

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