Building a Strong Foundation: How School Leaders Can Help New Teachers Succeed and Stay

[00:01] Announcer:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, helping you build capacity for instructional leadership. Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center, Dr. Justin Bader. Welcome everyone to Principal Center Radio.

[00:13] SPEAKER_00:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to welcome to the program Dr. Michelle Hope. Michelle is a National Board Certified Educator with extensive teaching, district-level coaching, and school leadership experience. She has a passion for public education, curriculum writing, teacher development, and school improvement planning, and considers the opportunity to work with teachers and students an honor. She currently serves as an elementary principal in Memphis, Tennessee. She is the author of the new ASCD member book, Building a Strong Foundation, How School Leaders Can Help New Teachers Succeed and Stay.

[00:44] Announcer:

And now our feature presentation.

[00:47] SPEAKER_00:

Michelle, welcome to Principal Center Radio.

[00:49] SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be here.

[00:52] SPEAKER_00:

Michelle, I wonder if we could start with what you saw happening in the field. Why did you choose to write a book about helping new teachers succeed and stay?

[01:02] SPEAKER_01:

So a number of different factors that came together. At the time when I came up with the idea of the book, I was an assistant principal. And we were always in leadership meetings talking about two things. How our new teachers were doing, you know, whether they were going to stick around, come back another year. and then how we can better support them. As you know, school leaders will get in classrooms, we observe teachers, we give them feedback, but it's not coaching.

[01:27]

And so I was constantly sort of bubbling to the surface the fact that we weren't properly coaching. Yes, we were giving feedback, but it wasn't coaching. And I knew better. I had been an instructional coach, had received formal coaching training. And so I asked my principal at the time, hey, how about you let me work with the new teachers? I will do like a weekly session with them and give them all the tools that they need to be successful.

[01:50]

And at the time, I decided that I was going to count anyone zero to five in that new teacher bracket so that we would have some people in there who had experienced some of these things and had successes or failures that they could share and sort of create some authenticity around the group work that we were doing together. And so I did that. I literally met with a group of about 10 teachers every week. I had a PowerPoint show, of course, that I did, but we also taught very, you know, in a very real way about what teachers were seeing in the classroom. I was able to give some suggestions, but then they were able to give each other suggestions. And so it was a really beautiful thing that came together.

[02:27]

And then I was like, well, you know, this should be something that everybody should do. But it also occurred to me from conversations that I've had with principals that not everybody was comfortable with sort of what coaching should look like understanding that difference between feedback and coaching and then also understanding that as a principal you cannot be the only one coaching teachers you need to be able to develop your staff and so that's where this book came from it was okay what do we need to let teachers know so that they can feel successful be successful and then how can we provide coaching tools for leaders as they go through that process so yes it all came together but it was sort of a mix of those factors.

[03:08] SPEAKER_00:

How do you think about the different possible outcomes and priorities in working with a new teacher? Because it seems like we're pulled in a couple of different directions where we want people to be excellent. We want them to teach well. We also want them to not quit. We also want people who...

[03:26]

maybe made the wrong choice of a career for themselves to kind of realize that like we don't necessarily want 100.00% of teachers to stay if it's not right for them. How do you navigate the kind of competing demands of that work with teachers?

[03:43] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so absolutely. You hit the nail on the head in all the spaces there. So I think the first thing you said was, you know, how do we make sure that we give them the right tools? There are so many things out there. When we think about the interplay of factors that make a teacher successful, those are a lot of things that you have to get right for it all to come together. It's not just about, you know, sort of teaching curriculum.

[04:03]

We also have to get the behavior management under control. We have to form relationships with students. We have to form relationships with families. We have to feel connected to the work and to the space. And so I really did just pick a few things inside the book to talk about. Part one talks about the conditions for success.

[04:20]

So that includes making sure that teachers have the resources they need. making sure that they're connected to their team, making sure they feel supported. So a lot of times when we do exit interviews with new teachers that are leaving, they say they just didn't feel connected. They didn't feel supported. They didn't feel welcome. And these are all things that we have to be really intentional about as leaders.

[04:40]

But then also what strategies are we going to support them through? There are so many. I picked just six. Could there be others? Absolutely. There's a part two.

[04:49]

We'll get to those later. But you have to get relationships right first. You have to get classroom management. I use that term loosely because it's not really management, but classroom management done effectively. You have to be able to structure your day, your lessons in a way that makes sense to children. We have to provide some sort of connection with our families in order to be successful.

[05:12]

And so that's where I tease those out. I will say, though, that you are absolutely correct. Not everybody is meant to be a teacher. And I think if you don't love it, and I mean really love it, then it is so much more difficult than I think, you know, it needs to be. And that's true of leadership, too. You have to wake up every day loving it.

[05:31]

Otherwise, you don't feel like it's worth coming every day. And so I We have had teachers. I've had teachers over the years that I have counseled to maybe consider a different job because it's clearly not something that they want to do, something that they like. If you don't like children, this is not the job for you. And so I do think that that comes with that relationship between the leadership, whether it's a principal or if you have a coach or an assistant principal and that teacher, the more that you talk to them, the more that they realize, oh, like, first of all, there's an expectation that I do something of value here. There's going to be somebody watching me, helping me through this.

[06:06]

And if it's not in my wheelhouse and it's something that maybe I should step away from. And no judgment for anybody that tries it and steps away. I had a teacher this year that was just like, no, you know, it's not for me. No judgment. Understood. I'd rather you leave.

[06:20]

And, you know, sort of we miss the harm that could happen if you stay than for you to, you know, keep trying if you really think it's not for you. So I definitely agree, though, that it's, you know, 100 percent is not what we're going for. But we do want to make sure that if they do stay, they've had the support. I saw a great quote last year and it was something like, you know, the only thing worse than not coaching our new teachers and having them leave is having them stay. And so, you know, we definitely, we want to make sure that they've had the support so that they're successful, whether they decide to stay or not.

[06:51] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. We don't want that lack of support to be the reason that they leave.

[06:55] SPEAKER_01:

Yes, absolutely. And, you know, it is a skill. teaching. I think that sometimes we've gotten away from that, you know, this idea that those that can't teach, that's not true at all. You absolutely have, there is a skill that's involved with teaching. And it's not just about content knowledge.

[07:11]

There is pedagogical knowledge that comes with that. There is, again, relational knowledge that comes with that. And so it's not just, you know, it's not just for everybody.

[07:20] SPEAKER_00:

Let's talk a little bit about classroom management, because I think when teachers say, I don't feel supported, often that's the type of thing they identify. And often if you talk to their administrators, they will have some concerns about the teacher's classroom management. And they say, well, I am supportive of this teacher, but they also have to do their part. And I think administrators are mindful of the potential to be too involved, or the phrase is to take power away from teachers. So there's a real balance to empowering teachers with classroom management, expecting them to do their part, but also not leaving them out to dry if they really do need administrative support. So what can that look like for leaders to provide the kind of support that in retrospect, teachers will say, yes, I felt supported.

[08:04] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think that it's more than just creating rules and procedures. And I think that's often what we think of often as a new teacher coming in. I remember this quite clearly myself coming in as a new teacher. I had a friend who had been teaching for a long time and she was helping me get, you know, sort of ready to go in the classroom. Now, this was about 15 years ago. And so coaching wasn't really a thing back then.

[08:26]

But one of the things that she provided me with was her rules and her procedures. And that was supposed to be on your wall. It was one of the checklist things that an administrator was looking for. And so I did. I put her 10 rules on the wall. And for at least a year or two, that was sort of what I went by.

[08:41]

But I do think that... We have to approach classroom behavior management in a different way. It really is about what strategies do we have in place that help students feel connected to the culture of the classroom. And so really, it's about cultivating a culture that is conducive to learning.

[08:58]

That's why, you know, I said I use the term classroom management loosely. I use it because it's what everybody understands. But really, that's not what we're talking about. We don't want to be managers of our classrooms. We want to cultivate an environment where students feel safe and respected, but also there is an expectation that we're here to learn. And because of that, off-task behavior is not allowed, you know.

[09:17]

And so I think providing teachers with those strategies, and it can be two or three. What are some key strategies that will help you successfully manage behaviors in your classroom? What are the expectations? How will you communicate those to students? What do you do when they miss the mark? And then that's how do you correct that behavior?

[09:35]

And then how do you also work on restoring the relationships that can be damaged as a result of that? And so that can help teachers feel successful, I think. I will say that as an administrator, I have a very different perspective on classroom management compared to when I was a teacher. As a teacher, you just want that child removed from your classroom. As an administrator, we want to keep them in the classroom as much as possible. I definitely agree with you about the power.

[09:59]

When an administrator comes to your rescue every time, you no longer have the power in your classroom. But I also know that as a leader, when my teachers need me, I want to be there for them. And so we often tell teachers, you know, that can look in a variety of different ways. Sometimes that means we come into your classroom and we sit with the child. Sometimes we pull them out for a little while. Sometimes they do need to come and be somewhere else for a longer period of time.

[10:22]

And so I do try to be supportive as much as possible because we, of course, want to retain new teachers, but we want to retain all teachers. And classroom management continues. We know whether they're new or... better and continues to be a reason why we know teachers just leave the classroom.

[10:38] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I can recall feeling that maybe an office referral wasn't necessarily the best response to what happened in the classroom, but at the same time, everybody's human. Everybody reaches their limit and people really feel our support for them. Even if they could have handled it better as adults, sometimes we just need another set of eyes or need a little bit of a break

[11:00] SPEAKER_01:

Yes, absolutely. And I'd much rather a teacher ask for that break than sort of escalate the situation to make it even worse.

[11:08] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a great way to frame an issue that's brought to your attention. Like at least it was brought to your attention. You might not be happy that it was brought to your attention, but if it was going to have some other blowout side effect, you know, I would much rather deal with an unnecessary office referral than have a teacher never come back. How do you think these issues have evolved over the last couple of years as we've shifted from, I mean, like when I was a principal, and this is a while ago now, there was this idea that if someone was not getting the job done, they could immediately be replaced. And that was true, at least in my context.

[11:41]

If I had a teacher who was subpar, I could post a job and get 100 applicants and 10 of them would be national board certified teachers easily. What do you think has changed in the last couple of years?

[11:53] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so that's definitely not the case. You know, I work in an urban school district, so the bench for teachers is not that large anyway. I think that the general consensus is that it's better to coach up the teachers that we have than to start from scratch. A lot of the times the teachers that we are hiring are brand new teachers and sometimes they've not had any experience. educational training at all, which is not always a bad thing. Like sometimes somebody can come in and can be a natural.

[12:19]

I hired a teacher last year, straight out of college, super smart, but had not had any education classes, but she's doing really well this year. I had her misplaced in her grade last year. I had her in fourth grade. It just wasn't, that wasn't the right place for her. I've moved her to second grade this year and now she is performing as well as my veteran teachers in terms of her student scores. I mean, we've obviously given her a lot of support and we've really enjoyed that sort of getting to see her grow in herself.

[12:46]

And so I do think that sometimes new teachers can be you know, great, but generally I'm feeling more confident in sort of coaching these teachers in a second year than having to start from brand new with somebody that's got zero experience. And so that can be more difficult. Of course, teachers also transfer between buildings. That can be a way that we can get teachers. And for me, I would much rather have a vacancy than at this point fill it with somebody that is maybe not the best fit. And that is in two regards.

[13:19]

It's one, do they have the... capability to you know be instructionally sound to do what I need them to do for my children here but then also fit in the culture of my school and so we've worked really hard this is my second year in this building we've worked really hard on creating a culture of collaboration of a family of high expectations. And so I need anybody that comes in to fit into that culture. And so I do, you know, I did mention that teacher that quit back in December.

[13:49]

That position is still open. I don't have any applicants. The applicants that I do have are people who'd be looking for a permit, you know, their second career, looking to change careers. I'm just not willing at this point to just put a body in there. We're figuring it out in other ways. I've got my coaches and myself, we're going in and we're teaching.

[14:08]

And so that we're waiting until we get some sort of high quality candidates.

[14:14] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Timing often is not convenient on that, right? There's an ideal hiring season and then there's a not so ideal and there's virtually impossible hiring season, like the winter holiday break.

[14:27]

Yeah.

[14:30] SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And I've made those mistakes before, you know, where I've been like, I just want to hire somebody because I can't have nobody. And I've made a mistake. And, you know, once bitten twice shy, I just won't do it again. I really need to make sure, again, that cultural piece, which is not just about, you know, your personality, but are you willing to...

[14:49]

to fit into the goals and vision that we have for our students here. We talk a lot about being relentless in our approach. We want excellence for our children. Again, we're in an urban school district, so we've got a long way to go. And so the work is hard and it's not for everybody.

[15:05] SPEAKER_00:

Michelle, I know chapter six in your book is about supporting teachers with planning. And I wanted to ask about this because I think planning is one of those issues that varies widely. The expectation of how much autonomy do you have in your planning? How much are you following district plans? Or how much are you following team plans? Really, we're all over the map as a profession.

[15:21]

And when I think back to our expectations in Seattle, we had a pretty high degree of teacher autonomy, especially at the elementary level, as far as what went into your curriculum, what went into your lesson plans. We had a neighboring district that was very aligned, very coordinated. Everything was online. Everybody was pretty much at the same place on the same day. And they got better results than us. People like their autonomy.

[15:44]

But, you know, we have a lot of different situations that people can step into. So if you're a new teacher and you go into that other district, you're going to have a very different experience than if you come into my district where you have a lot more autonomy. Talk to us a little bit about what that support can look like, knowing that it does vary a little bit as far as how much is actually on teachers' plates to plan versus follow plans that somebody else has made.

[16:06] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I actually think that both are equally difficult. A plan that somebody else has written, you know, requires you to still dig deep to prepare. You have to sort of digest what somebody else has said and done. I even mentioned in the book, you know, if I had written this a decade ago, I would have, of course, included how to write objectives and things like that. That's not even a thing anymore. Those things are typically either written by a district or they're embedded in our curriculum and textbooks and things like that.

[16:32]

I do think, though, that planning has to be collaborative no matter what. And that means that it has to have an administrative aspect to it. New teachers need to plan with somebody that is a peer and then also that is sort of in that supervisory role. And so in my building, we have cohorts of leaders. And so, you know, I might have sort of a math lead who will plan with the math teachers and they sit down and they look at and we do have a district that pretty much tells you what you'll teach each week, you know, and then of course the curriculum is pretty scripted and so they do unpack it, but then they practice it. So, you know, they might say, well, how would you teach this part of the lesson?

[17:12]

And then maybe a veteran teacher will get up and kind of show what she would do. And sometimes it's very different. It looks like them doing the math on the board or reading the text together. And so I think either way, whether it's you're starting from scratch, what are we going to teach? Or whether it's, okay, how are we going to teach what they're telling us we're going to teach? It just requires that somebody has to sit down with you.

[17:33]

and go through it. I will say that in my experience, even districts that create plans for teachers, they're not as detailed as perhaps a new teacher might need at certain points. And I have coached new teachers who needed more. And so we had to, even though, you know, the district provided this particular plan for them, we used a different lesson plan template that was, you know, more explicit so that they could kind of unpack those things. And that was usually the most effective way that I was able to build capacity in new teachers when it came to curriculum planning. They didn't like the extra work, but they were happy for it in the end.

[18:10] SPEAKER_00:

I appreciate your point there that even if the curriculum is very well articulated before the teacher touches, that it's not a matter of opening a can, right? Like it's, there really is some cooking that still needs to happen no matter how much you're given to start with. You mentioned there are different leaders, like a math lead, you know, people who are not necessarily administrators, but are taking a lead role in helping their colleagues unpack that curriculum, maybe helping them see vertically how things are aligned and how their piece fits into the K-5 curriculum overall. How do those leaders work in your district?

[18:44] SPEAKER_01:

So it varies from building to building. I have two coaches that one kind of serves as my math lead and then one serves as my K-2 lead. They are full release teachers. They get a teacher salary, but they're full release and they support with that PLC work. So they lead collaborative planning and And then they also lead teachers through data and then sort of like planning for small groups and things like that. So they meet with teachers about twice a week.

[19:13]

I also have an assistant principal and she also serves as my ELA lead. And so she does that with the ELA teachers. And then on top of that, they also do walkthroughs of those same teachers. So they plan with the teachers and then they do walkthroughs of those teachers and and provide them with feedback. So it's a cohort relationship that works really nicely. And then on top of that, of course, I'm doing those same things as well.

[19:36]

So I do a lot of the data sort of on the larger scale with teachers. A lot of my work, of course, as the principal is building the capacity of those leaders first. One of the things that I started new this year was that I have my leads fill out a planning document for what they're going to do with the teachers ahead of time so that I know how they're planning to lead teachers through the curriculum. Because we don't want to make a misstep in the place where we are with teachers. We want to make sure we catch anything ahead of time. And so that's worked out really well.

[20:07]

It's been a nice way to build capacity there. Other buildings, it's not always like that. It just depends on the size. I have a large staff, about 35 full-time content teachers, and then around 800 children. So I've learned very quickly that I can't do everything myself. And so we have kind of little pockets that we call them cohorts, cohorts that we lead.

[20:30]

And then we build them their capacity. In addition, I have this year, I have seven or eight new teachers who are in that zero to two years. And so they get additional coaching from one of us. So each of us picks up two teachers. that we coach on the side and there's a new teacher coaches and they get additional, you know, work. We had sort of like a schedule very much going over the things that are in the book, but we have a schedule of when we do certain things, obviously classroom management, classroom relationships that we did that in August.

[21:00]

And then in September we did families because we were, you know, coming into parent and family conferences. And so we just kind of pull those through the year, but each teacher, each new teacher has a coach as well.

[21:11] SPEAKER_00:

Love it. Really appreciate the detail there because your school is as large as a lot of middle schools and high schools. And often there's not that level of kind of middle leadership level. Around instruction that you need when you have that many teachers, you know, as you said, you can't personally coach 35 teachers as a principal, even with an assistant principal, you need a team approach.

[21:32] SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And other things come up, obviously behavior issues come up that you have to deal with. There's other administrative issues, but it could be something as small as a leak that you have to deal with or a parent that wants to see you. One of the things that we talk about in our building is that we really have to prioritize the instructional things. So I have open office hours for 45 minutes every day when I'll meet with parents. And so if they just drop it in, that's the only time they can drop in.

[21:55]

If they have an appointment, obviously they can come see me other times. But we prioritize getting in classrooms, coaching teachers over everything. And that is a challenge. You know, we don't always succeed in that, but we really do try to prioritize how are we supporting teachers? Because that's the only thing that's going to move the needle.

[22:13] SPEAKER_00:

So the book is Building a Strong Foundation, How School Leaders Can Help New Teachers Succeed and Stay. Michelle Hope, if people want to connect with you online, where's the best place for them to go?

[22:25] SPEAKER_01:

So that would be to follow me on X, voice formally Twitter, and that handle is at loveserveteach.

[22:33] SPEAKER_00:

Dr. Hope, thank you so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio.

[22:35] SPEAKER_01:

Thank you so much. It was an honor being here.

[22:37] Announcer:

Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.