Tasks Before Apps: Designing Rigorous Learning in a Tech-Rich Classroom

[00:01] SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high-performance instructional leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:14] SPEAKER_02:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to welcome to the podcast Dr. Monica Burns. Monica is a curriculum and ed tech consultant, Apple Distinguished Educator, and founder of ClassTechTips.com. Monica is a curriculum and ed tech consultant, Apple Distinguished Educator, and founder of ClassTechTips.com.

[00:35]

She's a featured speaker at the upcoming FETC, Future of Education Technology Conference, and she's the author of Tasks Before Apps, Designing Rigorous Learning in a Tech-Rich Classroom.

[00:49] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:51] SPEAKER_02:

Monica, welcome to Principal Center Radio.

[00:53] SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much for having me.

[00:55] SPEAKER_02:

So you are a full-time consultant and technology coach for K-12 schools and beyond. I wonder if we could start by just getting a sense of where this book came out of in your work. What did you see happening as you got into classrooms, as you worked with teachers on designing learning experiences using technology for their students? What did you see that prompted the need for Tasks Before Apps?

[01:19] SPEAKER_00:

So as a classroom teacher, I started with an overhead projector and chalk and dry erase markers, all those great things. And in less than a decade, transformed into a one-to-one iPad classroom. And so when I go out and keynote and speak, I often cite that magical delivery of iPads as being not very magical for too long because it really came down to the why we were using these tools. And that's really where that task before apps gut check came from. I usually like to think of the phrase that way, right? The why are we doing this?

[01:54]

How does this connect to our learning goals? And now that I've been out of the classroom for several years, coaching, spending time side by side with teachers and classrooms and then speaking at larger events, I try and bring everyone back to that question because I often, you know, I'm asked what is the best app for this or the best app for that? but it's really about what are you looking for your students to understand, explore, accomplish, And then what can we do to circle back to really leverage digital tools to make the most of the time that we have with students in classrooms?

[02:26] SPEAKER_02:

Very well said. I definitely resonate with that understanding or that shift. We all had, those of us who can date ourselves to that era, all had the overhead projectors and the vis-a-vis markers. And I don't think any of us would have said, my lesson plan today is overhead projector and vis-a-vis marker. But when we started to get technology, I think many of us were quickly guilty of that, saying that this app was the lesson plan for today, or the students are going to do, and then rather than state an objective after what they're going to do, we would state the name of the app and start to put the technology before the learning. So I love that framing, and I love that priority, that first things do have to come first.

[03:09]

What are some of the, I guess maybe the good and bad reasons that people choose to use apps as part of their lesson versus maybe doing something that's entirely tech-free? What are some of the thought processes that you guide teachers through?

[03:24] SPEAKER_00:

So when talking to teachers about that, why, right? Why are we using a particular tool? You know, one of the reasons that we often come back to is access, right? So giving kids access to something that they might not have been able to access at all or as easily in the past. And that also comes down to supporting students with different needs. So someone might be able to pull up one type of support resource where another student might not need that particular piece, yet they can do something a little bit differently.

[03:51]

So when talking to teachers about the why we're using different tools, part of it is just the access to consume and curate content more thoughtfully in a classroom. But then there's also that layer of what couldn't we do before or what could we do before but now that we have digital tools we can do better or that we can reach more students with. And so I'm a really big fan of open-ended creation tools. I actually have a chapter in the book specifically on creation in the classroom And for as much as I appreciate the power of adaptive software or the motivation behind gamifying experiences or points or badging, I really love open-ended creation tools because they can be a choose-your-own-adventure situation for students, this opportunity for educators to guide children through that creative process to demonstrate their learning in really any subject area or grade level.

[04:49]

but also give them the space to use their voice, to use media, to really go behind the camera if they're making a movie or behind the screen if they're writing something that's going to go onto a website or even creating graphics similar to what they see in different social media platforms. So this idea of the why and what we're doing, I'm trying most often when helping teachers plan a lesson or demoing sometimes when I visit schools or classrooms, is to really set students up for success when it comes to creating a product that gives them the space to apply what they've learned and share what they've learned with the world.

[05:28] SPEAKER_02:

I'm hearing a lot of overlap there with project-based learning. And I know your work is popular among people who are into project-based learning. I was reading Suzy Boss's endorsement of your book. And I think that emphasis on creation is so critical because it addresses one of the concerns that I feel like is widespread among parents, among administrators, among teachers, that technology is going to take the essence out of education or that technology is going to basically be, you know, let's do standardized testing all the time and call it You know, a unit or call it a curriculum. And certainly we've seen efforts along those lines that take it in that direction of, you know, just kind of go through this, you know, quote unquote, personalized learning platform that gives you questions that are adapted to your level. But then, you know, in some cases, we've even seen students rebel against that and say, no, I'm not.

[06:16]

I'm not going to sit at a computer. I want to create. I want to interact with other people. I want to use technology in ways that make sense, but I want it to be the tool and not the purpose. And I love this focus that you have in the book on the level of task, because I think that's one that is easy for us to kind of bypass. You know, we think in terms of units, we think in terms of lessons, we think in terms of activities.

[06:39]

But talk to us for a moment about why that task level of figuring out what am I going to have my students do? What technology are they going to use? Why is that task level so important?

[06:50] SPEAKER_00:

So it's really important to have a focus, right? The why are we doing this? Also, you know, it's not just the learning goal and isolation, right? Of course, there's layers that are happening over the course of that unit or a course of the school year. But in addition to that learning goal, also thinking about the success criteria is a really important part of that task development. So not only are we saying this is what the goal is, but this is how I'm going to know if someone's, you know, got it.

[07:16]

I usually have air quotes going when I say the got it, right? The thumbs up. What am I going to check off and say, oh, yeah, they really understand this or they have the depth that I'm looking for. So keeping that learning goal and then the success criteria hand in hand, then we can start making decisions about ways to leverage digital tools to help make sure that we get that information, that we're confident that someone has had a chance to apply to something and really does understand it. So one example I like sharing comes from my time in the classroom where I was working with students of a wide range of language acquisition. So some students who were conversationally proficient in English, but struggled when it came to write in English.

[07:58]

And so in the math classroom in our afternoon, I taught upper elementary school. So right in the math classroom part of our day, right, they would come back from lunch. Maybe the morning of ELA was frustrating for them. But we come back and math is that safe, like happy time. And the minute that I'm asking someone to explain their thinking or write a paragraph about how you solve that problem, right, that takes them back down to that place of not feeling very confident in themselves, right, as a student. And so in those moments, as much as I do want students to be ready to write that paragraph explaining their thinking, I also just want to make sure that they've got it, right?

[08:34]

That they understand how to complete that particular task in our math part of our day. So using something like Explain Everything or a screencasting recording tool built into something like Seesaw, right? If that student can show me what they've done, record their voice explaining their thinking, well, that's really going to help me understand where any breakdowns in terms of misconceptions they might have, any areas that they've mastered and we're ready to move on, as opposed to thinking about only getting that information one way. So it's not to say that we are abandoning expectations that we have for students, but that we are giving them lots of ways to get there and using voice recordings, using audio recordings, in combination with screen recordings, is just one example of a way that we can look at a traditional task, give kids more access, and you know what, at the same time, they're creating a product that might look like what they see on Khan Academy, and then if we share it to the school's YouTube channel, that's gonna be a pretty special buy-in for that child as well.

[09:38] SPEAKER_02:

We should mention that the book is full of examples, loaded with examples, in fact. So I'm glad you mentioned one there. What are some other kinds of categories and then maybe a few specifics that people will find if they pick up the book and take a look?

[09:52] SPEAKER_00:

So one thing I really tried to do, especially because I work with pre-K through 20 educators, is to make sure that there were specific examples for someone who's envisioning what this might look like in their first grade or their eighth grade or their 12th grade classroom, as well as big ideas that can be tailored to specific situations. So throughout the book, I do give those specific examples that go along with more general ideas. So here's a great strategy. And now this is what it might look like in these three different environments. So an elementary, a middle and a high school so that readers can start building that capacity to make connections to what's going on in their work. And, you know, oftentimes when I'm brought in to a school, right, to do professional development or even a regional event.

[10:39]

I'll have those mix of folks, right, or kindergarten all the way through high school. And when we think about technology and the way that children in that wide range of ages interact with device, you know, it can look very, very different when you're five years old or 15 years old. But when we talk about the task development piece and something I try and do in the book as well as, you know, on-site PD2, is to really break it down to those core concepts of the what is it that we're looking to do? What kind of support can we give students now that we have access to these digital tools? What type of audience can we connect them with now that they have access to the world, right? Maybe it's local or maybe it's global.

[11:16]

And then how can we also promote some of those transferable skills, which I talk about in the book, including collaboration in the classroom? So are we really giving kids an opportunity to not just sit side by side as they do something, but really leverage all of the ideas that their peers have to compromise, to evaluate what someone else's contribution is. And so that is a big piece of the book as well. And in addition to that concept of creation and collaboration, something that also spans that nice pre-K through 20 range too, and we see this a lot more typically at early elementary level, and some of this gets lost as students move up over the grade levels, is the curiosity component too. So the three Cs I focus on in the book are creation, curiosity, and collaboration.

[12:08]

And so with that curiosity piece, I also place an emphasis on making sure we're listening to student interests, how we can use digital tools to gather a full picture of what students are excited about, then how to also introduce them to experiences that are the I don't know what I don't know, right, where they can't quite tell you what it is that they want to learn more about until we give them a little bit of a sense of what we can dive into a bit deeper.

[12:33] SPEAKER_02:

Well, and I love how much of what you're saying is the same as what I'm hearing from outside of the technology side, but in, again, the project-based learning, the standards-based kind of side, so much of the cutting edge pedagogy, the cutting edge approaches to, you know, say understanding by design or learning targets and success criteria. It's so great to hear that integrated with, you know, the technology decisions and the apps that teachers are selecting because that's how it comes full circle.

[13:01] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yes. I mean, that's something too. And you mentioned UDL. I was actually out in California earlier this fall and someone had heard me speak and they wanted me to come to their group. And I said, but, you know, just so you know, we have a really big emphasis on UDL.

[13:15]

And I, you know, right away I said, oh, that's amazing. Right. Because all of these pieces are come together. It's important for me to know that not because it's going to change the message, but it can help me make sure that I'm using the vocabulary that's really going to resonate with that particular group. Right. So just like you're saying, there are so many of these core values that overlap and we just want to make sure that they're accessible for everyone to fit them in in a way that's going to strengthen teaching and learning.

[13:41] SPEAKER_02:

So, Monica, thinking about school leaders who want to support teachers in using technology effectively, maybe who have lined up the technology itself, you know, maybe the devices are in place. Maybe the network is fast enough. Maybe there's a budget for apps and all of those things are in place. But there's still some hesitation or there's still just a sense of uncertainty among teachers as to what do I do with this? You know, and it's not the kind of outright resistance that says, you know, this is a bad thing and I don't want to do it. But I think a lot of us on the administration side have struggled with what to say or what to do to support teachers who, you know, they don't not want the technology.

[14:23]

They're just not quite sure how to best make use of it and kind of what to do as some first steps. So what do you advise administrators to do to understand their teachers' needs and what kind of support they need to get rolling?

[14:35] SPEAKER_00:

So there's so many pieces there when it comes to introducing new technology and really bringing in that buy-in. And first and foremost, I think it has to feel relevant and authentic to what the goals are for students. And so if that can be communicated in a way that's really in context for teachers, I mean, part of it is, you know, is this going to make my life harder or easier? And if we can make sure that people know that this could make their life not just easier, but also have their impact go wider within their classroom, right? So that's one component, of course, but how can we make sure that they understand that this is going to be purposeful? And so some of the work that I do at schools is, you know, things you'll see in the book, which is how does this fit into a unit, right?

[15:19]

Why are we doing this, right? What is this extra layer going to do? If we've invested in making sure that everyone has access to these tools, Right. How are we now going to make sure that this connects to something we've always done? And it might be right as simple as saying, you know what, on our curriculum app, we're still going to do biographies in the month of February. However, instead of having students write that five paragraph essay or in addition to as an extra layer of their.

[15:46]

study, we want them to produce something that's going to connect to a special event we're having in the community. And we can use those Chromebooks to access, you know, the free Adobe Spark tools. We can make movies and now we can connect them on our Instagram page. And so showing and demonstrating that process and what the support is going to look like throughout that process and then how it comes back to all the great things that have already happened right in the school when it comes to developing curriculum and making sure a plan is in place. I think that's important. But having buy-in, right, can come in lots of directions.

[16:19]

And one thing I'm really trying to choose my words carefully when talking to people about, it comes around, right, who are going to be your early adopters. Because I think so many people default to, well, those new young teachers know how all their phones work, and they're going to be the ones that dive in. When Sometimes, right, they're the most scared of everyone because they're just scared of everything because everything is new to them. And it really, you know, in my experience, more often than not, it's the veteran teachers who have the context for why this is going to change the way they've always taught ecosystems or how this virtual reality tool is going to totally transform their unit on natural disasters. They can't believe that they now can do this thing they always wish they could. Right.

[17:01]

So. I think it's important to think about what it looks like when school leaders are communicating these new initiatives to make sure everyone is included in those conversations and not just some of the people we might assume would be most excited. And so having teams of teachers from across grade levels across years of service, right, across content areas that can really become those first folks to try something new and to have support and to build leadership capacities in those groups is something that is really important to me in terms of trying my best to communicate that, you know, we're all in this together and we all can see value in the power of these tools in different ways.

[17:44] SPEAKER_02:

Oh, I love that. And I think that early adopter kind of decision is such a critical one for success. And this is something that I've been interested in for a long time, this idea that the early adopters play a role in proving the concept and enlisting the support of other people and showing them that it can be done. And I think you're absolutely right that if we only go to the young teachers who are more comfortable with technology, that doesn't win over the rest of the staff who are are not the same as that younger group of staff. But I also think there's a key point linked to some of the content of your book that we talked about earlier, this idea that bringing along the rest of the staff is so critical. And if we're proving the wisdom or the success of an initiative in the early stages only with younger teachers, the rest of the staff really has to see that they can succeed with things and that this is relevant to them.

[18:40]

you know, to their goals and to their way of teaching and to what they want to happen for their students. So I think that's terrific advice just to bring people in from across the spectrum of experience, from across the age spectrum. And I think there's so much wisdom that comes in there too, because when someone maybe is less comfortable with the technology, it's not what they default to. I think they're also more purposeful about the choices that they make. You know, if it's going to be a struggle for me to learn how an app works and learn how to teach it to my students, I'm going to be much more purposeful about selecting the right activities, the right opportunities to use that app, than if it's just kind of my default is, of course, I use apps for everything, why would I not? The intentionality there seems to be a big, a big factor.

[19:23] SPEAKER_00:

So I think, you know, that kind of concept of making sure that everyone sees themselves right as a user of digital tools is so important. And just as you mentioned, this concept of making sure that everyone's voice is heard, that they are represented in those conversations, that they are given that special thing to try out in a way that makes sense. The context that a veteran teacher has to bring in as an expert of curriculum, as an expert with the pedagogy, as a newer teacher is growing in those areas is really powerful.

[19:58] SPEAKER_02:

So Monica, if people want to learn more about your work and hear more from you about integrating technology, where's the best place for them to go online and follow you?

[20:07] SPEAKER_00:

So I have a Monday newsletter that goes out on Monday afternoons and it is accompanied with, I've been doing some Instagram TV episodes to go along with it over the course of the week. And when folks sign up for that, they get a whole bunch of goodies right away. Some posters, eBooks, lots of fun stuff. And they can access this from classtechtips.com slash sign up. And then if you're on my website and you click the free stuff button at the top, you'll also find lots of extra downloads too.

[20:38] SPEAKER_02:

So the book is Tasks Before Apps, Designing Rigorous Learning in a Tech-Rich Classroom. Monica, thanks so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio. It's been a blast.

[20:48] SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for having me.

[20:49] Announcer:

Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.