Naphtali Hoff—Becoming The Delegating School Boss

[00:01] Announcer:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, helping you build capacity for instructional leadership. Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center, Dr. Justin Baeder. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:13] Justin Baeder:

I'm your host, Justin Baeder, and I'm honored to welcome back to the program Dr. Naftali Hoff. Dr. Hoff is a former educator and school leader who serves as an executive and performance coach and trainer, and he's the author of three books, Becoming the New Boss, a leadership book that helps new leaders hit the ground running and enjoy sustained success, Becoming the Productive Boss, which helps leaders and their teams get more of the right work done, and Becoming the Delegating School Boss, which helps school leaders clear their plates and empower their teams, which we're here to talk about today.

[00:43] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:45] Naphtali Hoff:

Naftali, welcome back to Principal Center Radio. Thank you, Justin. I am super excited to be here. I guess I have this affinity for being a boss, which is actually not the case, just for everybody to know. I prefer leader. I preferred some other terminology to boss.

[00:59]

However, it really rolled off the tongue the first time I got started with authoring a book, becoming the new boss. It just kind of fit. And so I have followed the pattern title-wise ever since.

[01:11] Justin Baeder:

And this book has quite a story, so I'm excited to jump into it with you. But I think in this book in particular, talking about delegation, you tackle that head on. So let's get right into it. Why do we need to think about delegation? Why do we need to think of ourselves in those terms, even if it makes us a little bit uncomfortable?

[01:42] Naphtali Hoff:

So as far as the delegation side of it. I can talk from personal experience as well as what I've seen in all of my work coaching and working with school leaders. When I arrived as headmaster, head of school of a small independent school in Atlanta in the summertime of 2010, so we were on the tail end of the recession. It hit the community hard, and we were very much bare bones strapped from a staffing vantage point, administratively and otherwise. And I had, as I understood it, a significant mandate for change. A lot of things that needed to happen, improve the school on many levels.

[02:19]

And I was pushing myself really hard as well as my administrative team. And people were starting to buckle. You know, they were starting to feel like there was just, you know, undue pressure put on them. And frankly, for myself, I was working really long days, probably 10 plus hour days on a And so I began the process of trying to figure out how can we leverage existing talent? How can we find others that could take on some of these pieces? People we already had oftentimes in the building that had the ability to be empowered, to be repositioned, to think differently about their roles and responsibilities.

[02:58]

And I see all the time that what happens is that school leaders, oftentimes what happens in general is that people, when they get promoted, they often think of their previous position, but on steroids. So if I was a salesman and now I'm the sales manager or the sales lead, I'm doing what I previously did, just I'm doing more of it and I've got some extra responsibility. The reality is very different. A leader needs to shift from me to we in order to be successful, right? It's no longer about myself and my own success. It's about leveraging the talent of those around me.

[03:26]

So as a school leader, if you were formerly a teacher and you had all of the responsibilities, I don't need to tell you, about curriculum and lesson planning and materials and communication, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Now, all of a sudden, you move up into the administrative ranks, but you still think like a teacher. You still think I'm supposed to do it all myself. I'm responsible for the newsletter. I'm responsible for all the communications. I'm responsible for yada, yada, you know, all of those elements.

[03:54]

So being of a delegating mindset is not only about self-preservation, but it's also about leveraging the talent around you so that not only can you get more work done and more of the right work done, which is a critical piece. I do a lot on productivity, and that's an essential element that I keep focusing on. What are the high leverage tasks you need to be doing that others can't do? But then finding a way to delegate just about everything else. so that you're doing your best work, others are doing their best work, and you're building a team of leaders around you.

[04:26] Justin Baeder:

And I think so often we hesitate to prioritize that work that only we can do because it feels less like we're prioritizing the work and more like we're just being selfish. And I know you have two chapters on some of the reasons that school leaders hesitate to delegate, but I think it all comes down to ultimately that work that only we can do. Why do we hesitate to delegate? What are some of the reasons that specifically hold us back?

[04:52] Naphtali Hoff:

Right. Right. So whatever ultimately happens in the school comes back to me. The old, the buck stops here. So yes, you want to have that degree of accountability, but you also sometimes, as a result of that, are afraid to give it over to somebody else. They won't do it necessarily as well as I can do it.

[05:30]

Or they'll have a different style, and I just don't feel comfortable with that. There is a lot of perfectionism that creeps in. And many, many educators buy... I don't know that there's necessarily a particular reason for it, but it does appear that educators by and large have more of an inclination, so to speak, or proclivity towards perfectionism.

[05:49]

We want things to be exactly so and just perfect and everything should really represent well. So there's trust. There's also a factor of I don't have anyone to delegate to. Right. I may not have anyone on my team that I feel is ready or they're so busy as it is. How can I put more on their plate?

[06:06]

So there are a lot of reasons. Like you said, there's a reason that I dedicated that much time to lay out the reasons. But reasons could also, if we're being very honest, be referred to as excuses, because sometimes there are things that we know we need to do. and we hesitate to do them, but we know that really that's not a valid reason. We're just offering an excuse to make us feel better. If school leaders are willing to, so to speak, take the plunge and say, you know, I'm going to do this even if it's uncomfortable.

[06:37]

I'm going to do this even if I'm not fully ready. At the end, they'll get better at it, and everybody's going to gain as a result.

[06:44] Justin Baeder:

Let's talk a little bit more about that problem of other people not really having the bandwidth easier. And you spoke of how your school in Atlanta had, everyone had a full plate. Everyone was loaded with work to do. How did you think about delegation in that context where nobody's really sitting around with free time on their hands?

[07:04] Naphtali Hoff:

So it was about repositioning certain individuals, especially in our office staff. And sometimes what you can do is, especially for example, if it's a financial consideration, like I can't take on more salary right now. So there's different levels of salary. Just as an example, there's an administrative salary and then there's a let's call it secretarial salary. I may be able to bring certain people in on the lower levels, if you will, of the structure from a workflow standpoint to allow those people who had been doing what we might call low leverage work for a longer period of time to do less of that. So it was a matter of sort of raising certain individuals and bringing other individuals in from underneath.

[07:46]

In addition, if you're talking about a school, which, of course, we are, then, you know, you often have teachers who are available for some additional work. They may not have bandwidth. Like if you ask them to do another project in their own classroom, they may push back because they don't feel like they're going to get that much out of it. And you're not increasing their salary or whatever it is. But maybe you have an opportunity to give them a project. Maybe there's something that they've actually expressed some real interest in.

[08:13]

Just as an example, when I was in my about my third year on the job around that time, I had been taking trainings or participated in a fellowship there. that had introduced myself and other members of that fellowship to, amongst other things, a proactive, positive behavior system that was based on values. And so it was a really neat thing. And we were talking about it, whatever it was, and do we want to implement it in our own school? And then seemingly as an act of God. And from my vantage point, some teachers walked into my office and basically said, we have a behavior problem here and we need to figure this out.

[08:50]

And I'm thinking, wow, perfect timing. You know, I could leverage what I've just learned and put it into place with an audience that's already ready and interested in this. Now, was everybody ready? Of But I had some people who were ready to step in and become part of it. We started a conversation. We created a committee that involved administration and faculty members.

[09:11]

And then we rolled out the program in the following fall. And so the idea is that sometimes you have people who are in the building who are willing and interested in particular things. And maybe they want to become an administrator one day. What you're giving them now is an opportunity to step into something that otherwise may not have been obvious. And that creates a new pathway for them. And if they see it as a stepping stone towards their own professional growth, then you win and they win.

[09:39]

Right. And there are some just as another point coming back to the question previous about why people hesitate. Sometimes I think people hesitate because we're afraid that if we empower our people too much. They might pick up and walk out. Right. If I've got a great superstar teacher and I give her all of this opportunity to take the next step, maybe she leaves my building entirely and becomes an administrator somewhere else.

[10:03]

But we do have to be in the mindset of building leaders. filling the pipeline the same way that somebody invested in me that ultimately allowed me to step into a leadership role. We have to be willing to do that with other people as well. And sometimes the price will be watching them walk out. But at the same time, we've empowered them and hopefully we'll have done it well enough that the next person can step into their role and we can quickly get them up to speed. Very well said.

[10:28] Justin Baeder:

There's no guarantee that we can hang on to anybody. And especially when we are working with someone who has a lot of potential, we have to accept that there's a very real probability that they will move on into a higher level role. And that's ultimately a good thing for kids, right? If we have the best people moving into the most senior roles. I mean, that seems like a good thing to me. It is.

[10:48]

Let's talk a little bit more about that perfectionism and the concern that if somebody other than me does this, it's not going to be as good. Talk to us about your thinking about that and then also what we do to delegate effectively so that the result is still good. You know, it still meets our standards. We're still willing to sign our name to it, even though we're not personally doing it the way we might feel compelled to.

[11:13] Naphtali Hoff:

Yeah. So perfectionism, as I look at it, again, it's not just an educator issue. It's an issue many people deal with. And I have a whole series of productivity trainings that I do around issues that include dealing with perfectionism. And what I tell people is the goal is not perfectionism. The goal is excellence.

[11:32]

Because perfectionism, or perfect, I should say, there is no such thing as perfection. Right. Perfection is an impossible standard. And there's always something you could do to make something better. So we have to be able intellectually to sort of check off in our mind and say, I'm not going for perfection. I'm going for excellence.

[11:52]

And excellence is, of course, going to vary depending on what it is that we're talking about. If it's a newsletter, it'll change. manifest in one way. If it's an athletic program, it's going to be something else. If it's an academic element, that's going to look different as well. But we have to be able to identify what are the objectives, what are we trying to accomplish in each of these key areas, and then work towards excellence in those respective areas.

[12:14]

So one example would be as part of that same training that I talked about before, this is, mind you, I had already had completed two master's degrees in education, but sometimes you'll just learn things at a different stage in your career. We had been walked through Madeline Hunter's methodology around effective instruction and the essential elements, if you will, of effective instruction, all the key components necessary for a great lesson. And so I was teaching this to two of my And junior administrators, even though they were not junior in age, they were just junior in status or title, so to speak. But we were a team of three for the most part. And I was teaching them these elements and how to roll them out and how to use that language in conversation with teachers and what to look for. And what constitutes evidence of, et cetera, et cetera.

[13:01]

So there I was also, in a sense, delegating. I was delegating the walkthrough process to a degree teacher feedback and assessment because I wanted it to be a shared responsibility. And I knew that in order for us to be able to meet the needs of all of our teachers, I needed to be able to have assistance, especially because I was occupying the head of school role, which had many elements outside of the academic field. arena that I was responsible for as well. So my goal was to delegate, so to speak, to them. But at the same time, at the beginning, I would go to the classrooms with them.

[13:35]

We would debrief together. We would talk about what we saw. And slowly but surely, I felt more and more comfortable allowing them to do that independent of me. And again, the objective wasn't perfection. The objective was excellence. And I felt that they had met the excellent standard insofar as their ability to go in, see what they needed to see, write it down, have a proper conversation, collect the data, all those things.

[13:58]

And so that's true for everybody. Now, coming back to how you help set people up for success, I think, Justin, it's really important to for you to know what success looks like, and then do your very best to create the mental image with the other person about what success looks like so that you both have that shared vision. You do want to write it down so that you have something that's clear. I think of it oftentimes like, you know, something every teacher could relate to a rubric, right? So you've got the criteria and the gradients of quality. And if you lay them out, these are the things I want to see.

[14:32]

in your paper, in your project, in your whatever. And this is how I define excellence, good and fair and poor. Let's just say that those are the gradients of quality. So I give you a vision of what excellence looks like, and then I give you a pathway by which to get there. Now, depending on the nature of the project, the size of the project, and the timeline involved, it's going to vary in a variety of ways. I do think building in opportunity for regular feedback is critical.

[15:02]

Having opportunity for people to tell you this is where I'm up to. This is what I've accomplished. This is what I've yet to do. I'm getting stuck over here. You don't have to do that daily, but I think a weekly check in, especially for something more significant, would be great. And if it's an ongoing thing like taking over the newsletter, just as an example, then you can again, you start off with maybe regular touch points at the beginning.

[15:23]

You kind of get on the same page. You understand it's not going to be perfect on day one. But over time, the intention is that it's going to start to fall into place. And if you see that the person just isn't getting it, then you have to figure out what kind of support they need. And in extreme examples, you may have to pull it back. But at least you've given them every opportunity by telling them what the vision is, how you see it to be best implemented, but giving them space to be themselves and having room to do it their way.

[15:52]

And yet to be involved where you're delegating, but you're not abdicating. You're not just punting it to them and say, here, it's your headache now. I still own this with you, but I'm going to take a secondary role in that process.

[16:04] Justin Baeder:

What I'm hearing is kind of a gradual release of responsibility model where you're creating the vision together. There's some modeling, some doing it together, and then some pulling back. If it's the kind of thing that does require a level of skill and a level of building your trust and confidence in the other person that they're going to do this well.

[16:22] Naphtali Hoff:

I talk about in the book also Ken Blanchard's model of situational leadership. It's the same basic concept like you're talking about. You're moving from directing leadership. to coaching, to supporting, to delegating. So in that model, delegation is actually phase four, which is the final of the four steps. And that makes a lot of sense because, again, to delegate at the beginning when the person is brand new, they don't know what's expected of them, they don't have that confidence yet or any success behind them, even if they succeed in other areas, is irresponsible.

[16:54]

So as a leader, you need to be involved. The question is to what degree, what's your leadership style? All of that can be finessed.

[17:00] Justin Baeder:

Well, now that we have a bit of a plan for what to delegate and how to delegate, I wonder if you could take us into some of the common pitfalls of delegation, because certainly we don't always get this right, and we probably tend to make the same mistakes over and over when delegating. So what do you see as some of the top pitfalls for leaders who are delegating?

[17:19] Naphtali Hoff:

Yeah. One of the things is, like we just mentioned a moment ago, not being sufficiently clear. People hate to have things delegated to them and not know what is being expected and then being held responsible for the outcome. So being clear is critical. Asking enough questions to ensure that they sound clear to you, so to speak, before you fully delegate it. That, I think, is an important piece.

[17:42]

Another one is delegation is not an all or nothing proposition. As we talked about before, sometimes leaders will say, well, if I'm going to delegate, here it is. Right. It can't be that way. You have to be able to remain supportive. Another thing is if we think about a mental Eisenhower matrix for a moment, the urgent and important matrix that often we look at when it comes to time management and productivity and things of that nature.

[18:06]

Right. The four quadrants are called the four Ds, do, defer, delegate, delete. So delegate is quadrant three, which is urgent but not important. So typically speaking, those are the kinds of things, having somebody schedule your meetings, maybe respond to some of your emails, et cetera, et cetera. Not necessarily high in value, but high in urgency. And they do need to get done.

[18:29]

They're not to be dismissed categorically, which is the fourth one, which is delete. But oftentimes we conflate urgency with importance and we confuse the two. And we think that if it's urgent, somehow that gives it intrinsic importance, which is not necessarily the case. There are things that leaders need to do that they should not delegate because the leader needs to do it. They need to be making those important decisions. They can't just delegate.

[18:56]

hand it over to somebody else and say, okay, you deal with personnel, you hire and fire. I mean, sometimes you could, I suppose, but if it's for, let's say, a specific department. But under normal circumstances, the leaders have to be able to make those important decisions. If you have to deal with, I don't know, the press, let's say there's something that happens with the school and you're in the news, the leader's got to show up. You can't just delegate that to the next guy over. You know what I'm saying?

[19:20]

So these are the kinds of things that If a leader is mindful and really giving consideration, you could say, okay, this is a project. We have a production coming up. I'd love to be able to hand that off to somebody else. We have some new ways of thinking about curriculum, and maybe we want to start looking at some new books, for example. Maybe I'm going to hand that over to somebody else to at least get that process started. Now, you might be saying as you're listening to this, well, we already have people like that.

[19:49]

You know, we already have that built in. And if you have the right people in place, great. Then you, quote unquote, have been delegating for a while, at least in that domain. But there still are, if you look at, and this is how I often tell any leader or any person, frankly, for that matter, to look at them, at themselves and their situation. I have what's called an activity log that I distribute to my clients. Put everything down.

[20:10]

Go through a week, every day, logging literally every single thing you do. After a while, you're going to start to see there are things on that list that really are not quadrant one or quadrant two activities. Those are the activities, for the most part, that should be delegated. So this goes back about 10 years. This is actually interesting as it relates to time management, because sometimes we have a project or something, a vision of what we want to do, and things get in the way. So it's a bit of a different conversation to a degree.

[20:37]

But I was at the ASCD conference presenting. I can't recall if it was the national conference or it was one of the regional conferences. And I did a presentation on delegation for all the school leaders that were in the room. And it was like standing room only, very full, very engaged. And the person who at the time was in charge of publications came up to me and said, you should write a book on this topic. And I said, aha.

[21:00]

And I started to think about it and I started to write it and certain things happened. And maybe the initial feedback I got on some of the manuscript needed, you know, improvements, whatever it was. And then I got busy and other stuff. And I just put it to the side. But I know for a long time from my own experience, as well as from the feedback I've gotten from others, that this is a critical piece. And frankly, I'm just very honored to be able to finally bring it to market because I want school leaders to have every opportunity to be successful.

[21:27]

And success isn't just about success. your product, if you will, and the performance of your students. That's certainly a big piece of it. But can you come home to your family at a decent hour and not be fully burnt out in the process and show up the following day as your very best self and continue to do that Day after day, week after week, month, year, etc. The only way to do that is to, as Stephen Covey would say, sharpen your saw. Right.

[21:56]

So I'm not talking about going out on vacation and things like that, but you can't even begin that. I did a presentation two years ago. I remember specifically on the topic of how do I leave the building and not be worried that the whole place will fall apart in my absence, right? The more you delegate and empower, the less likely it is that you will be a critical piece. And sometimes we're afraid of that because we want to be valued. But sometimes the greatest value you create is by having an environment and a system in place where you don't have to be there and it'll still run just fine.

[22:29] Justin Baeder:

Yeah, very well said. I think one of the things I was most appreciative of as a principal was the fact that at least a couple of days a month, I had to be out of the building. So I couldn't be 100% essential for everyday things. Like there always had to be someone else who could do any given thing because I'm going to have to be at the central office. I'm going to have to be at other schools for different meetings. And that forced a level of empowerment and delegation that ultimately had a lot of other benefits.

[22:55]

And I will say I really appreciated your... depth on both the opportunities and the challenges of delegation and the strategies for how to develop people, how to identify the right work to delegate so that we can all be doing the work that only we can do and the work that is of the highest value. So Dr. Hoff, if people want to learn more about your other books or get in touch with you, learn about working together, where's the best place for them to go online?

[23:21] Naphtali Hoff:

Yeah, just go to my website, impactfulcoaching.com. I've got all sorts of goodies for people who want to check things out and of course, reach out and schedule a call. In addition, another place I hang out a lot is on LinkedIn. So find me there and I'll be more than happy to engage with you on that platform.

[23:38] Justin Baeder:

So the book is Becoming the Delegating School Boss. Dr. Hoff, thank you again for joining me on Principal Center Radio. It's been a pleasure.

[23:44] Naphtali Hoff:

Thank you, Justin. It's been an absolute pleasure.

[23:47] Announcer:

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