[00:01] SPEAKER_00:
Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.
[00:06] Announcer:
Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high performance instructional leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome everyone to Principal Center Radio.
[00:15] SPEAKER_02:
I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to welcome back to the show, Otis Kriegel. Otis is a 15-year veteran elementary and middle school teacher who has worked in dual language, monolingual, and co-teaching settings across the US and in Europe, currently in Germany, and is the author of Everything a New Elementary School Teacher Really Needs to Know But Didn't Learn in College.
[00:41] Announcer:
And now, our feature presentation.
[00:44] SPEAKER_02:
Otis, welcome back to Principal Center Radio. Thanks a lot, Justin. So let's talk about the origin story of the book for a moment. Obviously, we all went to college. We all learned a few things about teaching and learning. But what was the point at which you realized there was a lot that mattered right from the beginning for a new teacher that simply is not taught in college?
[01:07]
What was that kind of moment of realization for you?
[01:10] SPEAKER_01:
I think it was actually, it was about my fourth year of teaching and I was working with a student teacher. And we were talking about different aspects of classroom management and just skills and strategies that I'd learned in my first three and a half years of teaching. And I realized at that point, I reflected, I was like, gosh, I've learned so much on the job that I wish someone had just helped me with. And I was sharing all this with a student teacher and they were like, you know, I'm not really going over any of this in my teacher education program. And so for the next number of years, I started developing these ideas and eventually started giving workshops to new teachers, really talking about not the theory, which I think is important, and not a lot of the things that are covered in college, but really, or teacher training programs, but the nuts and bolts that you really need to make a classroom function and run.
[02:00]
And I think there are things that we just start to forget. And I think, especially veterans and administrators, sometimes it's been a long time since the We were new to the classroom and we forget all those basic little things like simply how to line your class up quietly, how to effectively plan a field trip, how to plan out a just a simple but really meaningful parent-teacher conference or back to school night. And so that was really when it hit me. So I was like, gosh, this is a lot of information that's not being communicated.
[02:33] SPEAKER_02:
Right, right. So many details, so many little steps that teachers need to take that, you know, just having a heads up. Oh, I need to think about this. I need to label this particular thing in my room. I need to have a plan for how I'm going to teach this particular skill to students or where we're going to put the jackets and how we're going to deal with rainy days. So many details like that, that as administrators, we're really not focused on.
[02:57]
You know, at the beginning of the year, we're thinking about our professional development plans. and getting everybody into their classes and safety and all those kind of startup things. But we lose track of the fact that for teachers, there are a million details that matter. And even veteran teachers might not even think about some of those things because they've got them so down. They're so well handled. They're so well routinized that if we think about the advice we might give to a new teacher, we might think, well, just focus on these couple of big picture things.
[03:26]
But really, there are so many details. And in the book, you highlight the big four relationships that a new teacher needs to develop. Certainly, there are lots of logistical things, but one of the things you highlight toward the beginning of the book is those key relationships. And for new teachers, who do you recommend that they start to build those relationships with right off the bat?
[03:50] SPEAKER_01:
Well, the big four I refer to as kind of the people who sort of... They kind of run the school. And so the big four are obviously...
[03:58]
the office manager, who is, if anyone's worked in a school knows they run the school, the custodian, some sort of teacher representative, and then obviously fourth is your principal. And that I think right away, you need to know that these people are running the school. But then also add on to that, you need to find a mentor. And as a new teacher, find someone that you connect with. And sometimes we're assigned mentors as new teachers, or principals will assign a mentor. But also, New teachers need to find someone that they just personally connect with, that they feel comfortable with, and they can ask that kind of everyday, any question to them.
[04:34]
And so I always encourage new teachers, find that person that you, they could be at a different grade level, but that you just know you can go to at any time. And also look to like grade level heads, people who are reading specialists, math coaches, but Just kind of start to just project yourself a little bit to really develop these relationships to help you. But the big four, you don't want to mess with the office manager. You want to make sure the custodian's well-treated. You want to know who your teacher representative is. And obviously, you want to know who your principal is.
[05:05]
But then beyond those, find your role model. Find that person in school that you can go to.
[05:10] SPEAKER_02:
Well, I think that's such an important point that often it's not the formal mentor. It's not necessarily the coach who provides feedback on instruction who is that resource. Sometimes it is just the next door neighbor or the teammate that you click the most closely with. And because for each of the areas that you identify in the book, there may or may not be school policies that are relevant there. I think it's so helpful just to have someone nearby that you can quickly ask, hey, this is how I was planning to deal with notes from parents that need to go to the office. Does that seem like that would work?
[05:45]
And I think what you've written here is really a great kind of checklist for teachers to kind of run by a peer, to make sure they have a system, to make sure that it's compatible with school procedures and school policies. So just thinking about all of the different things that new teachers have to worry about and that principals are worried about at the beginning of the year, what are some steps or some areas of focus that principals can pick out to help set new teachers up for success at the beginning of the year?
[06:16] SPEAKER_01:
Well, I think one thing, new teachers are naturally, they are fearful of their administrator. They're afraid. It's scary. And I was speaking to a group of administrators at ASCD a few years ago, and I looked at them and I said, Do you realize how scary a group of people you are? And they all kind of looked and laughed. And I said, no, you're scary.
[06:34]
You scare a lot of people there. They're fearful. And so I think that what administrators can do right off the bat with new teachers and say, hey, I am your superior. I'm your administrator, but I'm also an ally. And we're doing this job together. And just to kind of lower the fear and panic factor, because no one works well under that type of intense stress or fear.
[06:55]
So that's one thing to do. And also, I think it's important for principals to be really clear about their expectations, to not assume that a new teacher is going to know certain things, like where to line up at lunchtime, or what are the guidelines for communicating with parents, or what certain types of paperwork that needs to be turned in at certain times. Really be crystal clear about what you expect. What do you expect in an observation? What do you expect to see the teacher do? What do you need to turn in, assuming is going to lead to a disaster.
[07:29]
And so really be clear with them and that's going to relax them. And then they're just going to do a better job. So that's one thing I really talk to administrators about. And also really looking at the skills and strategies that many of us, you mentioned earlier, forget as we go on in our career, whether we're veteran teachers or administrators, all those little things, just give them some little tips and also really importantly, has ideas on what they can do if they have a problem. Who do they go to before they go to the administrator? You know, do you go to a neighbor?
[08:01]
Do you go to a mentor? Who is it that can help answer their questions?
[08:05] SPEAKER_02:
Well, and looking through some of the lists in the book of things like, you know, how do you get a substitute and how do you teach students how to deal with scrap paper and pencils? You know, really the very fine grained details that make the difference between a classroom that flows smoothly and a classroom where everything is kind of an overwhelming chore to to kind of get through the day. I think we all remember those days of being a new teacher and just being exhausted from every little decision that you have to make. Everything is new. And I think what you're doing here in the book, and I think what we need to do as leaders, is help teachers develop those habits. that not everything is a decision made from scratch ad hoc in the moment, but it's just part of a system, just part of a routine.
[08:50]
And I wonder, Otis, what your thoughts are on this as far as if we go into a classroom and we see that a teacher maybe doesn't have very well thought out systems for some of these things, and they're constantly kind of scrambling for, oh, where do I put this paper? And, oh, miss, what do I do with that? They're getting all these kind of random questions that a more experienced teacher would not be getting because they would have the systems under control. How do we raise those issues and helpfully point out systems that might be helpful without overwhelming new teachers? Because I think that's the issue here is that we've got this learning curve that we need to climb at the beginning of our time in the profession. How do we as administrators help teachers recognize where they need a better system and maybe point them to a chapter in your book without overwhelming them with to-dos?
[09:38]
You know what I mean?
[09:38] SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. I like that. You can definitely buy him a copy of the book. That'll help. But I think that one thing to do is use the resources you have in the school. I mean, you have a body of teachers as an administrator and many of which have incredible skills.
[09:52]
Highlight those skills and really get those new teachers into their classrooms. If you need to get a sub in for a period to get that new teacher time to observe someone else. using a system skill or strategy in their classroom that you want them to emulate, then do it. So I think that's the first thing I would do, I would recommend administrators to do. Instead of just giving kind of the didactic, hey, do this, have them sit in on someone else's class and see what you want them to do in action so they can understand how they can clearly implement it into their classroom. And that's something that's really important.
[10:28]
Okay. How's this functioning in their classroom? How's this function in their classroom? Okay. I can take that and I can do it myself. Um, and I think that's crucial showing how it really works.
[10:40]
The real kind of everyday rubber hits the road life in the classroom. And I think new teachers, even if they've done lengthy student teaching positions, need to see that on their own every day while they're being a head teacher.
[10:53] SPEAKER_02:
And I think that's so powerful just to see the whole system working together in someone else's classroom. I remember as a new science teacher, I had the opportunity to visit a few other science classrooms in other schools and really see people with a lot of experience and a lot of skill. And I was just amazed. And every time I would come back with just a ton of ideas that I wanted to implement. And I would always be a little bit overwhelmed because I'd try to do them all at once. But I think that's so powerful to get out of your own classroom, even if it feels like it's too soon.
[11:22]
Even if it feels like, no, we need to get a couple months down in the classroom before we get a sub. But I think that is so powerful just to have a vision to see what other people are doing with the same student population, the same circumstances, especially if they're very different from your student teaching. I personally... had my first teaching job five grade levels off from my student teaching.
[11:43]
So that was a big adjustment and really benefited from seeing other teachers at that grade level.
[11:49] SPEAKER_01:
Well, I think also just adding on to that is it's a great thing for administrators to do to make their staff also feel really valued, is that you're not only then helping the new teacher, but some of these veteran teachers are saying, hey, you're doing really terrific stuff. I want to highlight what you're doing, which is really going to create a natural mentorship program in the school right from scratch. And I think that's something that's great because if this new teacher goes and sits in with someone else, as you said you did and I did when I was a new teacher, then naturally they're going to check back in with that person. And then you've suddenly created an in-house support system that's going to be really ready to help them. at different times throughout the year and take a little weight off the administrator's shoulder.
[12:28] SPEAKER_02:
Absolutely, because there is so much. We absolutely can't micromanage all the little systems, all the little steps, and I think we've really got to pick and choose what we hold people accountable for and what we ask to be kind of a school-wide expectation. But just to have that network of support and to have that context is for teachers that you know here are people you can rely on here are systems that you can uh you know copy and and emulate and model based on just right there in the school i think there are you know there is such a rich array of experience in every school you know we have we have a thousand years of teaching experience in some schools you know if your school is big enough with the veteran staff you might have a millennium of experience which i think is just incredible So let's talk a little bit, if we could, about parents and families because, you know, again, thinking back to my experience as a teacher, you know, I thought I had things pretty under control after the first month or so of school because parents pretty much leave you alone for a while.
[13:25]
You might get a few emails here and there. But, you know, you're just kind of getting the year started. You get your feet under you with students. And then you start to hear from parents. You know, you send work home or conferences are coming up. And parents are a whole different ball of wax, right?
[13:38]
What are some of your recommendations for helping new teachers prepare to deal effectively with families?
[13:44] SPEAKER_01:
I mean, the first thing that I talk about in my book is that I really lay out a strategy and structure for working with parents that I think will help teachers be more successful. One thing is, be open that it's your first year of teaching. It's okay. Everyone has a first year. I've worked with many student teachers, and they're like, oh, well, I'm going to talk about my student teaching positions, and I'm going to talk about when I was a camp counselor. And I said, I think that's great.
[14:08]
Just let them know you're first year teacher. That's totally okay. And I think one thing that I've encouraged teachers to start the year with is I start with kind of a first day note home and setting that up as a method of communication on a weekly basis. So what the teacher does is every Friday or Monday, they sent home just a brief note about what's happening in school and what's happening curriculum wise, any important dates that are coming up. It literally takes 10 to 15 minutes to write. You can send it out in an email or a hard copy for families who don't have access to email.
[14:43]
And what that does is it starts to create this connection between the teacher, students, and family. And it involves the parents at home. So they're going to feel more comfortable and they're going to know what's going on in class, which will alleviate some of these emails that you may get about, hey, what's going on in school? What are you doing here? Why are you doing this? Just give them the information.
[15:04]
And another thing I talk about is like back to school night, just using an agenda. You know, I lay out in my book all the different points you could really talk about, but put an agenda up and just go right through it with the parents. Just be clear, simple, and straightforward. And I think if teachers really follow that type of advice, that you're keeping simple, clear messages, I think they're going to start to broker some really great relationship with families, especially if they start to involve them right off the bat.
[15:35] SPEAKER_02:
Very well said, and I appreciate that as a kindergarten parent this year, and just trying to figure out from my daughter what's going on in school. You hear very distorted information if you're relying only on your child to kind of get a sense of what's going on. It's like, oh, what did you do in school today? Oh, we watched a movie. What? You watched a movie in school?
[15:56]
It was like the five minutes while they're putting backpacks on at the end of the day, not... So, yeah, I think that having a sense of what kids are doing is so reassuring for parents. Having a newsletter, having reliable places where you can look to get information, incredibly powerful as a preventative measure to prevent people from kind of coming after you and saying, hey, what's going on? having doubts because you know in my experience when when people don't have information and they can't get information they don't live with that they fill it in with assumptions so the the more we can actually provide that information the better yeah and I think involving them in in the process of the everyday activities of the school is something that parents want as you said you're the parent of a kindergartner I'm the parent of a preschooler I want to know what happens and again the conversations that you have with your child
[16:44] SPEAKER_01:
Unless something really, really unique and special happens, like they go on a field trip. But even then, you don't always hear about it. And so just involving them will ease them.
[16:54] SPEAKER_02:
Absolutely. Well, let's talk a little bit about the big picture of stress and kind of the workload of being a new teacher. And I know we all remember that to some extent, but I think... The better a job we do of supporting new teachers, and I think we are getting better at that as a profession, but sometimes we actually make this kind of time management and stress and overwhelm problem worse by giving people two mentors and a buddy teacher and an induction program and a new teacher support PLC and a regular PLC in a department.
[17:25]
We give teachers all this support. And of course, they have all this work to do. And of course, they're climbing the learning curve of the profession. What are some of your recommendations, both for principals and for new teachers, when it comes to dealing with the kind of the work-life balance, the stress, the overwhelm that comes with being a new teacher?
[17:42] SPEAKER_01:
I mean, I try to encourage administrators to make sure that teachers aren't overloaded in their first year and first years of teaching because with too many committees, with too many kind of out of classroom responsibilities. Because as you said, there's so many different aspects of support that we're trying to give new teachers, different meetings, different workshops that they have to go to that make sure when they're in school and when they're at work, that that's really what they can focus on. And so kind of cutting away some of the fat of the other things that eventually some of the responsibilities you'll want them to kind of take up. The other thing that I've always recommended new teachers is That first year and first years, it is, it's very taxing. It can be really challenging. And I've talked to a lot of administrators just about, hey, encourage teachers to keep the work at school.
[18:36]
That sometimes new teachers say, oh, I'm just going to take it all home. I'm going to work all weekend. And what happens is they come in on Monday and they're totally burnt out. And burnout is a major problem with new teachers in education today. We're losing teachers after a Just a few years when that's right when they're getting effective. So keep it at school.
[18:54]
If you have to stay till 530 every day, then do it. If you have to take till six. But then when you leave school, it's your time and live your life a little bit. Leave it at work. And I think administrators can do a lot to really support that. Say, hey, OK, it's it's your time now.
[19:08]
Go out, live your life, come back in. We can get this done tomorrow. And otherwise, some new teachers, they're just going to work seven days a week. And by the time June comes, they're like, I can't do this again. I'm exhausted.
[19:18] SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, and I think that margin, that personal time, is what gives us the resilience to deal with the other side of the stress of teaching, which is kind of the emotional side and, you know, the toll that it takes on us. You know, we need that recovery time, you know, to show up, you know, fully mentally prepared to deal with what the day is going to bring us. Yeah. I think that's great advice. You know, as someone coming from a high school background where there's not that much you have to actually do, you know, in your classroom, you know, you might have to set up some equipment, but you can take most of your papers home. I think my inclination as a new teacher was, you know, the bell rings, I'm going to clean up a little bit, and then I'm going to get out of here, take everything home.
[19:57]
But I think for elementary teachers, I think that's so powerful to just say, okay, I am not going to live my entire life prepping and grading and everything. I'm going to work when I'm at school, and I'm going to leave it and give myself some personal time.
[20:11] SPEAKER_01:
I remember a story where I went over to a colleague's house. She had kind of like a little party for teachers. And I write about this in my book. There was a chart up on the wall from math, like from the math curriculum. And I said, oh, what's that? And she said, oh, I was bringing it home.
[20:25]
I was working on it. Two years later. She quit. She was like, I just can't do it anymore. I'm too burnt out. It's too taxing for me.
[20:32]
I never give myself that break. It's too much. And she went on to something else. She was really heading in the direction of being a terrific teacher.
[20:40] SPEAKER_02:
Yeah. And I think sometimes we confuse having healthy boundaries for a lack of commitment. And, you know, we think if you're serious, if you really want to do well by your students, you're going to work all the time. And I think we realize after a few years of that that we've got to make a choice. You know, either this is going to be a two-year career or a long-term career and one that's sustainable. And we've got to help our new teachers make those choices so that they can be in it for the long haul.
[21:08] SPEAKER_01:
It's so well said. I mean, the impetus for the book was really a workshop that I gave was how to survive your first years of teaching and have a life. And that's what eventually turned into everything a new elementary school teacher really needs to know but didn't learn in college. It was really looking at what do we need? What are the nuts and bolts? of the job that I really need to do to be successful?
[21:29]
How do I implement those into my classroom and also have a life so I can also feel inspired, creative, and passionate about coming to the job every day? Because those are some of the most important things and we're role models. And you have to be excited and energetic to come to work every day. And if you're not, you're dragging and your students are going to know that.
[21:50] SPEAKER_02:
So the book is everything a new elementary school teacher really needs to know but didn't learn in college. A great gift for a new teacher in your life or in your school. Otis, if people want to find more information about you and the work that you do online, where can they find you?
[22:07] SPEAKER_01:
They can go to my website, Otis Kriegel. That's K-R-I-E-G-E-L dot com. Or I'm also on Twitter at my name is Otis is my handle.
[22:17] SPEAKER_02:
Well, Otis, thanks so much for joining me once again on Principal Center Radio. It's been great to speak with you.
[22:21] SPEAKER_01:
Thanks for having me, Justin. It's been a pleasure.
[22:23] SPEAKER_00:
And now, Justin Bader on high-performance instructional leadership.
[22:28] SPEAKER_02:
So high-performance instructional leaders, what did you take away from my conversation with Otis Kriegel about supporting new teachers and helping them gain that experience but keep the balance in their first couple of months on the job? You know, one thing that really stands out to me is the importance of having reasonable expectations and limiting the scope of what we ask new teachers to do. Because we've got to understand that new teachers are, as Otis said, fearful coming in. They're eager to please. They want to do a good job. They want to develop a good reputation.
[22:59]
They want to have a good relationship with you as their supervisor. And one of the ways that they typically react do that is by saying yes to everything by signing up for every committee by being willing to give 110 and serve on every group that needs people and i think that one thing that we've got to do as leaders is just say no your job this year is to learn your job to have a life to not burn out And the committees will be here next year. If you wanna sign up for all of these committees in a couple of years, go for it. But this year you have full permission and really the expectation that you're not gonna be on any committees. You're just going to focus on getting your feet under you and doing a great job in the classroom and kind of figuring out what it means to be a member of this profession. Don't worry about putting extra time in
[23:50]
volunteering and serving on this committee and that committee we've got to simplify it for people and that's especially true if we're providing intensive supports so I want to also challenge you to look at the system of supports that you're providing for new teachers and make sure that you're not overwhelming them make sure you're not knocking them down with support and having to go to this meeting and that meeting and meet with this mentor and that mentor and turn in lesson plans and turn in videos and turn in reflections and and all these different things that might seem like they're helpful and they might actually be helpful individually. We've got to keep an eye on the big picture and make sure that we're not killing people with too much to do in one year because this is a profession. Keep in mind, when someone becomes a doctor, that takes eight years they have medical school they have in you know time as an intern they have time as a resident it takes a long time to become a doctor and it takes a long time to become a teacher and we don't hire people straight out of college and expect that they have exactly the same experience and skills as a 30-year veteran we've got to respect the fact
[24:55]
that it takes time to become a professional educator. And we've got to be the ones who are responsible for providing that support, for creating those conditions that allow people to become full-fledged members of the profession in the first few years of their career.
[25:10] Announcer:
Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.
