The Four O'Clock Faculty: A Rogue Guide to Revolutionizing Professional Development

[00:01] SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high performance instructional leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome everyone to Principal Center Radio.

[00:16] SPEAKER_02:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to be joined today by Rich Chiz. Rich is a principal and former teacher and instructional coach, and he's the author of The Four O'Clock Faculty, A Rogue Guide to Revolutionizing Professional Development. which we're here to talk about today.

[00:32] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:36] SPEAKER_02:

Rich, welcome to Principal Center Radio. I am glad to be here today. Thank you for having me. Well, let's start with kind of a bird's eye view. What is the main idea of the four o'clock faculty, and kind of where did that come from in your practice as an educator?

[00:50] SPEAKER_01:

Sure. The four o'clock faculty, a rogue guide to revolutionizing professional development, is all about taking charge of your own professional learning. So it is for every educator, teacher, administrator, anybody who's out there that wants to get something more out of professional development. In a lot of our schools and districts, we are kind of going through the motions with a lot of professional development, and it's not exactly what we need as educators. And the book is all about how it's our personal responsibility to take charge, to get exactly what we need, to make it meaningful and relevant, And it gives a lot of tips and strategies on how to do that.

[01:31] SPEAKER_02:

I love that idea because, you know, there's this kind of mixed bag when it comes to professional development, right? We've all been to professional development that was fabulous. And some of that was probably school-based and some of that was probably on the outside somewhere, maybe at a conference or maybe at another school that had something great going on. But I think we've probably all been on both the giving and the receiving end of kind of that PD that leaves something to be desired. Would you say that's fair? Exactly.

[01:58] SPEAKER_01:

And that's kind of where the idea stemmed from with the book and kind of starting early in my career. I had a couple of experiences with professional development. I personally was a math and science teacher at the fifth grade level. And I sat through a year long training, which I compliment the district on the year long training for a writing rubric. But it was a writing rubric that I was not using. And so it was quite an interesting experience and I sat through it.

[02:28]

And at the time, I would say what my biggest mistake was, I would leave each session complaining to anybody who would listen about how it wasn't right that as a math and science teacher, I was being forced to sit through a writing session for professional learning. And I never really did anything about it. I think with the book, it's kind of come full circle. And now I'm telling everyone, hopefully, that it is your responsibility. If you're not getting what you need, then you need to go out on your own and get it.

[02:56] SPEAKER_02:

Well, I think what we usually kind of tell people who are in that situation where there's staff-wide PD, And it really is kind of for the language arts teachers. You know, we usually tell everybody else, well, this kind of applies to you too. You know, you use the English language to teach your students. So this kind of applies to you, right? Is that kind of the message you got that just kind of make it fit, make it apply?

[03:19] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And we try to shoehorn everyone into something that's easy. And I've been on the other side as an administrator planning professional development, which can be a very difficult task. And it is extremely difficult to try to find something for everyone. And you have, you know, the one art teacher or the example that I always use is the school nurse. You know, what are we doing for the school nurse in terms of professional learning and professional development?

[03:45]

And it can be hard. And that's why it is easier to kind of plan those PD opportunities where everybody's involved. And we do say to the social studies teacher or even the math teacher, hey, you know, your kids are still writing, your kids are still reading in class. So So this language arts piece does fit in with what you're trying to do when in reality, it doesn't necessarily lend itself to what they do on a daily basis.

[04:10] SPEAKER_02:

And I feel like part of the issue that we're touching on here is that we overlap faculty meetings or staff meetings with PD. And I think that's necessary and good to some extent. But at the same time, there are meetings that I want the school nurse to be there for that really have nothing to do with professional development. And I do want the school nurse or the art teacher, whomever, to get good professional development. So what are some of the core tenets of your approach in the four o'clock faculty? What are some things that we can do to kind of untangle that mess that we have?

[04:44] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so the first one is that, again, professional learning does need to be meaningful and relevant for educators. So It should apply to what teachers are doing in the classroom on a daily basis. It should apply to whatever staff member it is and what they do. It should also provide some choice for them. So not all professional development can come in the form of choice. But I think when you are able to give choice to educators, it does have a meaningful impact on that professional development for them.

[05:13]

So that's another big one is making sure that they do have choice within what they're learning. The other one is time. And that's a big one. And there's a lot of different strategies that relate to time within the book. And we have very limited professional development time. And when you're sitting at a staff meeting and you are just sharing a list of things that someone can read in a PowerPoint or a list of policies and procedures, it's not a good use of that time.

[05:40]

So one of the things that I advocate for is trying to get people to use their time more wisely and taking something off the table that's not really meaningful and replacing it with something that is a little bit more meaningful, whether that's a discussion-based professional development session or conversation-based. One of the other things that we talk about in the book is problem solving. Can you use your time more wisely to solve a problem that you're dealing with as a staff that will help improve learning for the teachers and for the students as well?

[06:10] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. As I think back to some of my staff meetings that I was involved in or responsible for running as a principal, definitely some of the best and most memorable were the ones where we were really working through a situation, a problem as a staff and coming up with a plan for how to address that, that we really couldn't come up with individually. I couldn't have come up with that and thought through all the implications by myself. It really needed to be a whole staff decision. And then some of our best professional development decisions you know, that wasn't so much decision making and problem solving, but really was learning, happened in that more differentiated format where there was choice, where it was relevant to individual, you know, specific subject areas. So what are some different formats or what are some kind of strategies that you share in the book for helping schools figure out how to use that time?

[06:56]

You know, we have a certain amount of time, not very much, where we can meet as a staff and then maybe we have some discretion over whether people can split up into departments or teams. versus having everyone together. What are some different takes on that that you have in the book?

[07:09] SPEAKER_01:

So one of the big things is really changing the culture around the staff meeting. And in a lot of buildings, it is simply a list of things. Here's what's happening next week. Here's what everyone needs to be prepared for. And again, a lot of that information is information that can be shared in an email. So it's really kind of changing that culture, really modeling for teachers exactly what should be happening in the classroom.

[07:33]

So you know, if as the principal, I'm expecting to see a certain behavior with students in the classroom, I should probably be modeling that for the teachers. Uh, so there's a lot of different ways to do that. Uh, one of the things we talk about in the book is something called tech mechs Tuesday kind of came from the Lego movie with a taco Tuesday, and then also kind of combining that with, uh, with tech Tuesday. So we used to do a tech tip for our teachers on Tuesdays and, uh, What we did with TechMex Tuesday is we brought some snacks. We laid out the quesadilla maker. We brought in some chips and salsa.

[08:10]

And we had teachers kind of just sit and learn about a new technology resource, whether that was a website, whether it was Twitter, whether it was an app that they could use on the iPad. And we did that after school. And if you serve food, a lot of times teachers will show up. And we did that, and teachers got a lot out of it. They learned a lot by kind of finding different resources that they could utilize with students. And I think that's one of the big pieces as well, is making sure that teachers are using whatever it is they're learning immediately in the classroom, is really giving them something that they can take back to the classroom right away and use to improve learning outcomes with students.

[08:51]

It's also about connecting with others. So you may be the only person in your building, so I would highly recommend jumping on Twitter, jumping on Voxer to connect with other educators to really find the people who will help you grow as a learner. One of the things I've been talking about recently with some other educators is that fact that sometimes we're forced into a team who may or may not agree with a lot of our pedagogy or even instructional philosophy. But it's really about trying to find those people who are going to help you to grow as a learner. So even if people do kind of challenge your beliefs, hey, maybe that changes your belief system. But really getting to those people who are going to help you grow as a learner, who are going to help share their resources, share the things that they're doing that are helping and really collaborate with you.

[09:43]

So connecting with those people via social media, if they're not in your building, is an excellent idea. And then sometimes it's going rogue. So one of the big chapters in the book, chapter four is called going rogue and rogue stands for a relevant organized group of underground educators. And the idea there is that you're not getting what you need from your administrator or from your building principal or from your district. So you're going out to find it on your own. One of my favorite activities from that chapter.

[10:13]

is Fight Club. So based on the movie, the idea, you get a group of educators. But you don't talk about it, right? Yeah, you don't talk about it. But if you get a group of educators in a room, chances are there will be a debate or argument about something. So it's really kind of harnessing that power, bringing maybe a controversial topic to the table or something where there's going to be a couple of different sides to that topic.

[10:39]

And then having educators debate and discuss and really walk out of there, hopefully with a different understanding of whatever that topic may be. So that's one of my favorites from the book.

[10:50] SPEAKER_02:

Nice.

[10:50] SPEAKER_01:

And Rogue stands for, you said? A relevant, organized group of underground educators.

[10:56] SPEAKER_02:

Going Rogue. Love it. Love it. So what do you think about ed camps? I hear about a lot of schools that are doing ed camps and having either a mandatory or voluntary, you know, sometimes it's a mandatory PD day, but people have choice about what to go to and they can kind of make up sessions on the fly. What's your take on ed camps?

[11:15] SPEAKER_01:

So there's the chapter in the book on EdCamps. And for me, EdCamp kind of changed my worldview on what is possible for professional learning and professional development. So I had the opportunity just a few years ago. I want to say it was 2013 in the summer to attend my first EdCamp. And it kind of changed what PD was for me. So being able to go to an event like that and show up And find other connected educators who are sharing what they know, sharing their experience.

[11:50]

And if I had a very specific question that was relevant to me, chances are I could have found someone who had that answer for me that day. So for me, it was a life-changing experience going to that EdCamp. And I kind of write about that in the book. Once that happened, I wanted to bring it back to my district. And there's a fine line between an ed camp on a Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon where 300 educators are showing up on their own free time to learn because those are the rogue educators. Those are the people who are going out and getting exactly what they need.

[12:26]

versus 300 staff members in a district who are being told, next Friday is our PD day and everyone is going to be participating in an EdCamp. And I think there is a fine line between that. In the book I write about how we did it in our district, we kind of structured it EdCamp style where teachers did have choice. It was getting out and getting our staff members who were experts in certain areas to agree or volunteer beforehand to, hey, you know, you're really great with Google. Can you go out and share a session on Google with some of our staff members? And when we did it in district, it worked out really well.

[13:08]

It did give a lot of staff members exactly what they needed. And prior to that, we had been kind of shoehorning everybody into the same training. So it was a welcome addition to what we did in district. And, again, I think you need to, as an administrator, if you're planning that type of EdCamp-style PD within your district, there is a fine line to making it work and really getting people exactly what they need during that time.

[13:35] SPEAKER_02:

And do you recommend any particular training or do you think an ed camp is kind of best run organically? You know, like should people have a certain level of preparation or really is it the kind of thing that emerges best spontaneously? Because I know in a lot of ed camps, basically people show up the day of and decide what they're going to present about and what topics people are interested in. What's your take on that?

[13:57] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we were very scared of that when we ran the ed camp in our district. In our case, we had about 350 instructional staff members that included our teachers, our administrators, and our instructional aides. And we didn't want them walking in the door having no idea what this looked like. And we didn't want people to show up and have to decide what their topics were that day to put people on the spot, especially when they had never experienced or very few people had experienced an ed camp before. So We kind of pre-planned a lot of our topics. In the second year that we did the EdCamp, we did leave more openings for kind of spontaneous sessions during the day or throughout the day.

[14:38]

But one of the biggest pieces that we did to kind of grab that spontaneous piece was to extend some of the periods in between sessions and then to also extend the lunch period. So educators were sitting down, they were talking about what they learned about, or they were having conversations about other things that were relevant to them in terms of education. So, you know, again, there's a fine line in terms of training. We did, you know, a faculty meeting before the ed camp and we let teachers know, hey, here's the format. Here's what it's going to look like. You're going to have choice.

[15:10]

You don't have to decide until the day of what sessions are available. And, you know, we just gave them a list. Here's the 30 sessions that are going to be available that you can attend. Take a look. See what you might be interested in before you go. It might take a little bit of pressure off of deciding on that day.

[15:27]

And that did help. We also talked about kind of that experience of sharing what you're learning with other educators. And I think that sort of preparation did help those people who were a little bit uncertain, kind of going into unfamiliar territory.

[15:42] SPEAKER_02:

Well, what are some of the things, Rich, that you think we need to stop doing? Because every book that you can buy on Amazon that has strategies for educators has lots of things that we could start doing. But if I'm understanding correctly, a lot of what you're advocating in the 4 o'clock faculty... requires us to let go of some things that are maybe less effective.

[16:03]

And we talked about a little bit of that kind of shoehorning that we do that maybe we can give people more choice instead of saying, even though you're a science teacher or an aid, you should come to this literacy training. What are some other things that we need to maybe rethink and let go of a little bit when it comes to professional development?

[16:20] SPEAKER_01:

This is always a kind of a struggle, but it's that idea that it is solely the responsibility of the school or the district to provide professional development. And again, the book kind of captures that idea of it being a personal responsibility for every educator. I just had the opportunity a few days ago to speak with a class of pre-service teachers. And that was my number one message for them, is as you go through your educational career, your own professional learning is your responsibility. And sometimes there are going to be schools and districts that are able to help with that. And some of the things that they're going to be bringing to the table are really going to help you grow as a professional.

[17:00]

But a lot of times we solely rely on those other educators, those administrators. And in a lot of districts, it may only be one or two people who is responsible for planning all that PD. And we kind of lay that heavy burden on their plate to get it right for everyone. And again, it's a very difficult thing to do. So that would probably be my number one thing is like, let's make sure that everybody is taking responsibility for their own professional learning. And as administrators, we can make that easier by providing choice, by making it ongoing, by making it job embedded.

[17:36]

There's a lot of different ways to do that. One of the other big pieces for me is really using that time valuably. So making sure that we are utilizing our staff meetings, utilizing any time that we have to make sure that people are getting what they need. And that can be a difficult thing too. We only have so many hours during the day. We only have so many hours of PD.

[17:58]

And we really need to stop using it when it's ineffective. And if we can get rid of it and put something else in its place, then usually our educators and our students are much better off for it.

[18:13] SPEAKER_02:

So, Rich, I love what you said about responsibility and about the idea that we are responsible for our own professional learning and not leaving that burden on some overwhelmed district administrator who has to go around to every school and make the PD valuable and relevant for each individual person at every school that they go to. But really, that that's on us. And I wonder, what are some of the attitudes that you've encountered as well as ways for changing those attitudes? Because, you know, there are always going to be people who want to say, well, I think the best use of my professional development time would be for me to go back to my classroom and grade papers and get my room organized. And then we look at them and say, no, this is a PD day. This is not a go grade papers and clean your room day.

[18:59]

How do we set some parameters there and get people to kind of internalize that responsibility?

[19:05] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And I've been down that road in one of my previous districts. When I tried to change the professional development model, I got a lot of looks at staff meetings. So, you know, and just trying something different. Teachers were very much used to coming to the meeting and sitting and absorbing information and then leaving as soon as they were able to. And for the first time I walked in and I was asking them to participate, you know, hey, let's have a discussion.

[19:38]

What do you think about this? And I got a lot of blank stares back at me and it took several meetings before, hey, okay, maybe this is more productive for us than simply grading. So I think it is providing some of those experiences. It is modeling them. But it's also letting teachers know that it has to be for students. So whatever it is that you're doing during your professional development time, ultimately that professional development time should impact student outcomes.

[20:11]

So You know, is sitting in your classroom grading papers or, you know, organizing your papers going to directly impact the student? And I think that's a question that, you know, someone should ask themselves before they kind of look at how they're using their professional development time. And, you know, if you're telling me, listen, I'm going to go sit in my classroom with some of our other grade level colleagues and we're going to talk about how we're going to improve the science unit for next week. Awesome. That's a great use of time, but it does have to be impactful on student learning outcomes.

[20:46] SPEAKER_02:

Makes sense. And that kind of thing, if it's collaborative, that's very different. If people are getting together and scoring student work using a rubric that they developed together, even if you technically are sitting in your classroom grading papers, that's very different to me from just going and kind of doing your own thing. Because you know, that kind of iron sharpens iron dynamic. People are working together.

[21:09] SPEAKER_01:

And one other thing I'll add to that is I do a lot of voluntary sessions. And for me, that is something where it's important that I know that the people who are there are people who want to be there to learn. So you're not always going to get every educator who's interested in every professional development topic. And, you know, there are some where I have a crazy idea and I'm going to throw it and hope it sticks against the wall. And, you know, I have two people show up get up and leave after 15 minutes, which is fine. That happens sometimes.

[21:35]

But for me, those voluntary sessions are meaningful because I know the people who are there are people who are looking to improve. And sometimes it's because other educators are not able to attend. So it might be at a time that doesn't work for them, or they might be getting their professional development in a different way. But I think when you make it voluntary, it does make it easier for people to say, hey, this is something that works for me, I'm going to attend, or this is something that doesn't work for me, I'm going to find what I need in a different way.

[22:06] SPEAKER_02:

Do you have any tips for administrators who might be working with a particular group or a particular person who always has a no for whatever option is in front of them? Because, you know, I can see so many ways that this could go great. But then again, we all have somebody who's going to say, no, I don't really need that. That's not really a good fit for me. I'm not interested in that. What are some ways we can get those people to say yes and to commit to something?

[22:32] SPEAKER_01:

So for me as an administrator, it's getting out and having those daily conversations and supporting people. Right. And so, you know, if I'm proposing something or I'm sharing something that I think is going to benefit your students, but you know, you have that answer of, no, it's not going to benefit the students. I'm going to have a conversation with you about that. And I want to know, okay, how is it not going to benefit your students? What, what are you doing right now that's impacting your students?

[22:59]

And how is that more beneficial than what I'm trying to show you? And, I think a lot of times it is about kind of those honest discussions for administrators. I think it's also about those relationships that you're building. So, you know, I think if you have honest conversations with those people and you let them know, listen, ultimately, the reason I'm showing you this is because I'm trying to impact students, right? And if it comes down to the kids, you know, hopefully they're going to buy in. And it may not be that time.

[23:32]

It may need to occur over a number of conversations. And as you said, you may get that educator who is constantly going to say no. And a lot of times it's trying to pull them in. So is there something that they are doing in the classroom is very productive? And maybe having them share that with their colleagues. It's trying to pull them in in whatever way is going to kind of re-energize their passion about that professional learning.

[24:01]

And I think If you can kind of impact educators that way, just as we intend to impact students that way, it really could ignite someone, even who's a veteran teacher very late in their career, it could ignite someone to make a change that all of a sudden is going to impact them and their students.

[24:20] SPEAKER_02:

Rich, if you could wave a magic wand and transform professional development and get all of us to do something, what would that be? What would you have us do if you waved your magic wand and brought about a change in the way we approach professional development?

[24:35] SPEAKER_01:

So for me, I think that simple answer would be having every educator to bring that passion to their professional learning. So whatever it is that makes them passionate about why they first got into education and I think a lot of times as educators, we go through periods where we may lose sight of that initial excitement, that initial passion for why we first came into this profession. And it is incumbent upon all of us to continue to grow this profession and continue to make it what it is. And it is the greatest profession that any person can have is impacting the lives of children. And I think ultimately, if I could get every educator to kind of search out and find that initial passion that they had and bring that to their own professional learning, I think that's what I would seek to do.

[25:24] SPEAKER_02:

So Rich, if people want to learn more about your work or find you online, where are some of the best places for them to do that?

[25:30] SPEAKER_01:

So the first place would be the website, which is fourclockfaculty.com, F-O-U-R, o'clockfaculty.com. And then you can also find me on Twitter, at R-A-C-Z-Y-Z, and then all the other contact information can be found at the website.

[25:49] SPEAKER_02:

Well, Rich, thanks so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio.

[25:51] SPEAKER_01:

Thank you, Justin. I appreciate the opportunity.

[25:54] SPEAKER_00:

And now, Justin Bader on high performance instructional leadership.

[25:59] SPEAKER_02:

So high performance instructional leaders, what did you take away from my conversation with Rich Chiz about the four o'clock faculty and about changing professional development? You know, one thing that Rich said that really rings true to me is the importance of time and just how little time we have. with our staff. And I think if we want to create new possibilities for professional learning, one of the things that's absolutely critical is we have got to stop making announcements and reading PowerPoints and sharing information that could be just sent as an email, honestly, or sent in a newsletter during that face-to-face time. We've got to free up that face-to-face time. It's so precious and there are such better things we could be using it for.

[26:41]

So I've I've been asking around about this a bit as I talk to principals, and I've realized that I did something that a lot of people do. You may do this, but a lot of people don't have a weekly staff newsletter and a weekly parent newsletter. Or you may have one, but it may be something that your secretary sends out with the lunch menu and which classrooms are going to be cleaned on which days and things like that. I want to encourage you to give yourself a regular communication forum directly from you to faculty and directly from you to parents. And I want to encourage you to use that forum, use that bully pulpit to advance your instructional leadership priorities. you know when we have time in a staff meeting you might make a little presentation about a change about a strategic initiative about some professional development but that one announcement or that one presentation is not going to do the job all by itself if you want to see

[27:39]

teachers changing their practice, if you want to see a big change occur, you've got to communicate about that over and over and over again, week after week after week. So this doesn't have to be huge, but commit to yourself that every week you will pick that priority out And you will find a way to communicate with your staff about it. Write a little article, maybe some things that you saw in classrooms that week that are relevant to that priority. But whatever you do, use writing to communicate on a weekly basis with both your staff and your parents. And if you need a tool for that, I highly recommend a tool that did not exist when I was a principal or it did not exist in its current form for crafting beautiful newsletters. And that is smore.com, S-M-O-R-E.com, just like the campfire treat.

[28:28]

You can make beautiful drag and drop newsletters. You can copy and paste from one week to the next. And it makes it so easy. Like there's really...

[28:37]

No reason not to communicate through a newsletter every week. So I don't have a relationship with S'more or anything, but I just highly recommend that you do that or do something to get the word out to your staff and to your community about your priorities as a leader and what you're seeing in your school that you're excited about so that you can make that change, gain momentum.

[28:59] Announcer:

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