Robert Avossa—FETC

[00:01] Justin Baeder:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high performance instructional leadership, Justin Baeder. Welcome everyone to Principal Center Radio.

[00:15] Robert Avossa:

I'm your host, Justin Baeder, and I'm honored to be joined today by Dr. Robert Avosa. Dr. Avosa is senior vice president of education at LRP Media Group, where he oversees the Future of Education Technology Conference. And he's previously served as superintendent of several large districts, including Palm Beach County, Florida, and Fulton County Schools in Georgia, as well as many other roles in his 25-year education career.

[00:43] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:45] Robert Avossa:

So Dr. Evoso, welcome to Principal Center Radio.

[00:47] Robert Avossa:

Thank you. It's an absolute pleasure to be with you and looking forward to our chat.

[00:51] Robert Avossa:

Yeah, well, I think anyone who is in educational leadership for any length of time has the opportunity to be involved in leading some sort of education technology initiative, whether it's something small scale. In my school, one year, we used some PTA money to buy a laptop cart. All the way up to multi year district wide multimillion dollar programs and I wanted to start simply by not wasting the opportunity to tap into your expertise. On those district level initiatives, because I think there's both opportunity for us as leaders to really make some great things happen for our students. but also a great risk in that things may not go the way we want, that we'll make some missteps. So I first wanted to just get a little sense of what some of your takeaways from some of your most successful technology initiatives have been.

[01:42] Robert Avossa:

Well, I think any great leader needs to study and learn from those who've also gotten it wrong. And unfortunately, that list is pretty long and it's significant, especially in larger districts. But I would always start with the question, what problem are you trying to solve? If school boards or parents or groups are putting pressure on leaders just to buy technology for technology's sake, then you're going to run into trouble. But if you legitimately are trying to improve engagement, improve outcomes for kids, close achievement gaps, and you can put together a coherent strategy, then quite frankly, it makes it a lot easier because you can rally the troops around the problem that you're attempting to solve. I also feel like it's important that you lead with great teaching and learning and not devices.

[02:32]

In 2011, when Fulton County Schools had passed a one penny sales tax, we were fortunate enough that the community supported us. So we took the long view and created a strategic plan that allowed us school by school to help redesign and reimagine what teaching and learning look like at all hundred of the schools rather than looking at a cookie cutter approach. Now, it takes time, effort, and a lot of patience, but I feel like if you put together the right team with the right voices, teachers need to be involved, parents, kids, community members, and, of course, your school board. But those things are possible, and I think Fulton County is probably one of the larger districts with nearly 100,000 kids who's gotten it right, rolled out devices at the end of all of that reform, and really appears to be headed in the right direction, both financially and academically.

[03:24] Robert Avossa:

I think that patience speaks volumes of the priority of putting the learning first, putting the pedagogy first, and saying, we're not going to go out and buy devices as the first step, but really figuring out where do we want to go instructionally and getting teachers invested in that vision. and in the professional development required to make that vision a reality. Did that lead to different devices being purchased for different purposes or for different schools? What was the pattern?

[03:55] Robert Avossa:

Absolutely, 100%. And that was the part that I think some of our IT people pushed back on. Wait a minute, you mean we're going to have to support multiple devices? Yes, they had to support multiple devices. We put together a menu of options and created a selection process where elementary, middle, and high schools, based on the needs, based on this assessment, their readiness, we got different devices. As you might imagine, most of the high schools went with some sort of thin client laptop, whether it be Chromebook or others.

[04:29]

And some of the other schools decided to do only classroom sets of iPads and others did things in between. And so as that technology evolves, it's important that you give people choice. And we created an ecosystem where people bought into it. So rather than just someone saying, oh, great, the district decided we're going to use this tool. And now you're going to have resistance rather than letting people sit at the table and have a voice.

[04:55] Robert Avossa:

And was there pushback from parents on that variety that not all kids were going to get the same device, that not all schools were going to get the same devices? Like, was there an expectation in the community that, hey, we're all paying the same tax, so why don't we all get iPads for our kids? You know, that kind of thing.

[05:10] Robert Avossa:

Well, I mean, look, at the end of the day, what we focused on was a journey pre-K through 12 years. And that depending on the school's selection, now that doesn't mean that they couldn't use those funds to do other things. So some of the schools, they would get a certain allotment, for example, and they might buy interactive devices that could be checked out for the weekend, for example, rather than given to the students all week long. We let the schools decide that. Each community has a different threshold. We had some communities that were very worried about student privacy.

[05:43]

The parents were concerned, reluctant to sign students. forms about things and then felt comfortable over time. And then, you know, if a school, for example, went with a cheaper device, they could wind up using their tech funding for more professional development or purchasing other tools that they felt were necessary to achieve their goals in other parts of the building. But that's a good point because equity does become an issue. And I think that's why a lot of times communities do look at what each group is getting and they want to know why their kids don't have the same device. So communications is a big part of this.

[06:16] Robert Avossa:

Yeah. And I wonder if we could talk a bit about communicating about the pedagogy side, because I think it's a common experience for parents to hear, OK, there's a new tax or there's a new levy and devices will be purchased. But really, the first substantive communication parents might receive might be the acceptable use policy and, you know, signing the form that says, you know, you break it, you bought it, the liability form. So what are the most successful districts doing to engage parents in understanding the pedagogical changes that are happening along with that technology adoption?

[06:50] Robert Avossa:

So I would argue that the investment needs to start with the teachers early, often, and hard. We created different programs. One we called Vanguard Teachers and one Trailblazers, but essentially the same thing. You know, a couple of early adopters in buildings that are already good at teaching and learning, already great with the use of technology, but giving them some formal training to get even better and then be able to coach and model for others. We spend about a year and a half and two years doing that. We also partner with the local college and universities to help us continue to build capacity.

[07:23]

And once we started to feel comfortable with those movements, we began having conversations with parents about that teaching. and really leaning in towards project-based learning as well, helping them understand this isn't just about sitting in front of a device. This is about kids learning, thinking differently, making arguments, different methods, whether it's Socratic method or others. Those applications can be used to just, quite frankly, differentiate and provide some really personalized experience for kids. And once they understand that, then really the device is secondary, maybe even further back.

[07:58] Robert Avossa:

So thinking about how those decisions are made, including not just the device, but as you said, the pedagogy and what we want teaching and learning to look like. I'm glad you mentioned the importance of having that conversation with teachers early and really making teachers a big part of it. And of course, we have IT directors and administrators and district leaders all need to be a part of that. But talk to me a little bit about how you get on the same page. How do these various groups of stakeholders within the school come together to kind of learn and to make sense of what their options are and then formulate a plan that works for everyone? Because certainly we've probably all experienced the fragmented decision-making where somebody says, well, you're buying a device that runs this operating system and everybody else says, wait a minute, We have all these moving parts that we really need to put our heads together on.

[08:47]

So talk to me about how that can work and what you see the smartest districts doing when it comes to educating their whole team on how to work together to make these decisions.

[08:57] Robert Avossa:

Well, one of the most important things is that people, again, start with this question of what problem are we trying to solve? And then whose voices need to be there? One of the reasons why we've made some significant changes to our EdTech conference, FETC, that's coming up is because we really understand the idea that it's teachers, EdTech administrators, principals, IT folks, special ed folks, and early learning people that need to come together and formulate these ideas. We've created tracks for each of those components within FETC, and we continue to deepen them so that people understand this isn't just a, you know, come to a show once a year, and try to get a sense of what's out there in terms of new products. This is about learning and walking away with a solid understanding of what next steps need to look like.

[09:50]

So we've put a lot of thought and effort into that. It will be at the end of January, and I think people are going to notice a pretty significant difference in our approach given what I've learned over the last 25 years. Having gone to this conference as a teacher and principal and now being able to lead it, is really exciting because I'm able to help people avoid some of the mistakes that I've seen other districts fall into and traps that they fall into when there's political pressure to just purchase items and not think about the change management and development that needs to occur in the classroom. So that part's really exciting.

[10:25] Robert Avossa:

Yeah, so different tracks for different roles that people play in your district, if they're a classroom teacher, if they're an IT director, if they're senior leadership. So people can go to their various sessions within their track, but then meet with their team, you know, on site, you know, between sessions, after sessions, and continue to formulate that plan. And that's January 27th through 30th, 2019 in Orlando. Is that right?

[10:50] Robert Avossa:

That's right. And we also give discounts for individuals that come as teams, and we also provide opportunities for them to really collaborate, work with one another. And we're going to continue to deepen our investment in that area because at the end of the day, you know, I'm a teacher at heart, and running a conference like this is a lot of fun because we're teaching. We want people to walk away with new ideas, new thoughts, and get out there and get the job done for kids. That's what it's all about.

[11:15] Robert Avossa:

Yeah, absolutely. And with one of your keynote speakers is Salman Khan, the founder of Khan Academy. So lots of people will be there. How many people are you expecting this year?

[11:24] Robert Avossa:

We think all in we'll have about 10,000 people. The interesting piece about, you know, having Khan Academy CEO here is that on a personal note, I've watched firsthand, you know, how PSAT and SAT scores have gone up dramatically over with this free tool that's provided by Khan in a partnership with the College Board. So I would encourage any principal or teacher to look at how you can connect those two very important, powerful tools to help understand how your kids are doing in your district and how to help them get better.

[11:57] Robert Avossa:

Yeah, and some of those prep tools, I think back to when I was a kid and took the SAT. If you wanted to prep for the SAT when I was in high school, you had to buy a book and you had to go to the Princeton Review or some other multi-thousand dollar class. And a lot of these tools now are basically free to everyone, available online. And we're seeing a leveling of the playing field when it comes to access to some of those test prep resources, which of course makes such a difference in students' access to college and to scholarships. So really great to see.

[12:29] Robert Avossa:

Yeah, and we're also excited. We're going to have an astronaut, engineer, and entrepreneur named Dr. Mae Jemison, African-American, huge proponent of sciences and STEM. She's going to be one of our keynotes as well. Very excited and fortunate to have her there as well. And looking forward to learn and be inspired by all of our speakers.

[12:49] Robert Avossa:

And I have to ask, since the conference is called The Future of Education Technology, and I've got you on the line here, what do you think are some of the big trends or the big themes in the future of education technology? Where are we going next? Because, you know, we've been adopting new technologies and new practices at a pretty rapid clip with Chromebooks and Google Apps. And, you know, we've got all these great things that have happened over the past, I would say, decade or so. But what do you see as some of the things on the horizon? What's next?

[13:17] Robert Avossa:

I think there's going to be a huge disruption in the physical plants of public schools. If you look at the national numbers around investments that need to be made to bring our schools up to code, to refurbish them, to keep them up to high standards, it's not practical. You're going to start seeing teaching and learning occurring in different places in different times, and people are just going to have to learn to be flexible around that. you're already starting to see some disruption, whether it's in charter schools, online schools, et cetera, but also these micro schools that are beginning to pop up where a group of dedicated people come together, pitch an idea to a school district, and start almost a district-led conversion charter school where people are like, look, I live in a community.

[14:08]

I don't want my kid to have to take the bus for 45 minutes each day each way, and I want to do something special for them. So I think that's going to be a big piece of it. I recently saw some interesting work that HP is doing, you know, and this sort of three-dimensional world that they create in these field trips for students. I mean, it's mind-boggling, and I think you're going to see more and more of that technology being woven into everyday use and not just in specialized tech schools.

[14:36] Robert Avossa:

Well, and speaking of other kinds of technology, not just information technology, but kind of, you know, maker technology, maker spaces, things like that. What are you seeing on that front? I was actually speaking in the St. Louis area and the building that our event was in had a maker space and it was closed and I couldn't, you know, I couldn't get in there and see what all they had, but it looked incredibly cool. And I know that's kind of the first wave, but we're now seeing more and more schools at all different levels get into kind of the maker movement and these spaces where, you know, in some cases it used to be the library, but now there are all these new things happening. What do you see happening with the maker movement?

[15:14] Robert Avossa:

I'm so excited. We actually are going to have a bus on the floor of the Expo Hall that is a maker bus. It's huge. And this district partnership that occurred yesterday This one is with a college called KSU, Kennesaw State University, and the iTeach program. They're going to be there. I really want people to go take a look at that.

[15:35]

But it's this idea of, look, there's some districts and some schools that don't have the funds to do this, partner with a local college or university. These kids are super engaged, opportunity to build things, to think things through, to work. These critical skills that we keep talking about are necessary, but our teaching hasn't caught up with that. So it's a great way to do that. We have a little private school here called the Green School in Palm Beach County, where, you know, I go and look at how these kids are learning. Everything almost is project-based and making things and understanding how the three-dimensional world that, you know, they live in plays out from an engineering standpoint, a coding standpoint.

[16:16]

And it's really fun to see small kids being able to sort through really complicated problems. So I think you nailed it. It's a big opportunity. And it doesn't need to be in a media center, although most of us need to start there so that we can learn and let people who are okay with a little ambiguity run out ahead and sort it out so that other teachers can learn along the way.

[16:36] Robert Avossa:

So Robert, one of the things that I wanted to ask about was, you know, often we see technology being adopted first, kind of at the secondary level with Chromebooks for high school students, maybe middle school students, maybe iPads for elementary students. What do you see happening? at the earliest grade levels, you know, early childhood, kindergarten, even pre-K, because I think that's one area where, you know, we have some games, we have some, you know, my kids have played Lexia, you know, used Lexia and things like that, different specific apps to boost specific skills. But I'm interested more broadly what you see happening in the early childhood education space with technology.

[17:16] Robert Avossa:

Well, what researchers have made very clear is that we tell kids that they're either good at math, good at science, or good at reading, and then they slowly believe it and lose their hunger to take risk. And what we're seeing emerging, and we're very fortunate to have a couple of sessions led this year by some teachers in the field, one named Dr. Deborah L. Carlson. She'll be doing some stuff on engineering. If you want to take a look at it, go on YouTube and look up Kibo, K-I-B-O, engineering, with R-A-P-P.

[17:51]

You know, this is a teacher aligned with a local university doing some interesting things on coding, small robots. Kids get excited about it. They're not afraid to fail and they're learning. And that level of passion energy, if properly developed early, can only be expanded over time. A lot of times in middle school, as we start getting kids energized about math and science, we're like, oh, you know, I'm just not a math kid. Well, that's not true.

[18:18]

We all have the capacity to learn And it's our job as teachers and principals and school administrators to make sure that kids have those options. So it's starting earlier, and I think we're probably getting smarter and smarter on how to leverage thinking and design elements and strategy for younger kids. And then obviously technology plays a role in it, but it's not the only role.

[18:39] Robert Avossa:

So the conference is FETC, the Future of Education Technology Conference, January 27th through 30th, 2019 at the Orange County Convention Center in Orlando. So Robert, if people want to learn more about the conference and maybe look at bringing a team, where's the best place for them to go online to learn more and possibly register?

[18:59] Robert Avossa:

All you need to do is Google FETC. We're on Twitter, we're on LinkedIn, we're on Facebook, we're on the web, and lots of new and innovative ideas. You can check us out directly at www.fetc.org.

[19:14] Robert Avossa:

Robert, thank you so much for letting me pick your brain a bit on the future of education technology and professional development. More broadly, I really enjoyed catching up a bit and hearing your insights there. So thanks so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio.

[19:27] Justin Baeder:

It's my pleasure.

[19:28] Announcer:

Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.