The Book of Dares: 100 Ways for Boys to be Kind, Bold, and Brave

[00:01] Announcer:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, helping you build capacity for instructional leadership. Here's your host, Director of the Principal Center, Dr. Justin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:13] SPEAKER_01:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to be joined today by Ted Bunch and Anna Marie Johnson Teague, who are friends, parents, and anti-violence educators with A Call to Men, where they help men and boys promote healthy manhood and prevent violence and discrimination working with students, professional athletes, and organizations like the NFL, the U.S. military, and the United Nations. And they're the author of The Book of Dares, 100 Ways for Boys to be Kind, Bold, and Brave.

[00:43] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:46] SPEAKER_01:

Ted and Anna-Marie, welcome to Principal Center Radio.

[00:48] SPEAKER_02:

Thank you, Justin. Thank you.

[00:50] SPEAKER_01:

So why did you write this book? Because I'm holding it in my hands. And it's such an interesting format with a kind of a two-page spread for each of the 100 dares. Where did this book come from in terms of the needs that you saw in the work that you do?

[01:06] SPEAKER_02:

Thank you, Justin. So yes, Ted and I are both parents and we're anti-violence educators with A Call to Men. And we noticed a huge gap in the market for content for boys. that really speaks to healthy masculinity, that helps them develop healthy relationships, that encourages their authenticity and empathy, emotional literacy, and supports their social emotional learning. And the book of dares is really done to do that heavy lifting, but do so in a way that's fun and accessible for boys and parents and educators. And each of the 100 dares in the book all ladder up to promote healthy manhood, authenticity, and gender equity.

[01:46] SPEAKER_01:

So I wonder if we could talk a little bit about the 20 plus years of work that this book has emerged from. So I know, Ted, you've worked for many years with adults, with boys of all ages. Talk to us a little bit about that work.

[01:59] SPEAKER_00:

Sure. Well, it's based on the work of A Call to Men. And A Call to Men educates men and boys all over the world on healthy, respectful manhood. Embracing and promoting healthy, respectful manhood prevents all forms of gender-based violence. A Call to Men is a Violence Prevention Organization and respected leader on the issues of manhood, male socialization, and its intersection with violence and preventing violence against all women and girls. The organization's approach is grounded in a social ecological model advocated by the Center for Disease Control as a framework for primary prevention for gender-based violence.

[02:36]

And as you say, our work is from middle schools, through professional sports, from grassroots organizations to Fortune 500 companies. And it really is the antidote to a lot of the issues that we see. As we increase and promote a healthy, respectful manhood, we also decrease and prevent domestic violence, sexual assault, bullying in schools. All of those things go away. And the Book of Dares is an entry point to have those conversations as well.

[03:03] SPEAKER_01:

You mentioned socialization as perhaps the origin of some of the unhealthy roles or messages that boys and men get about what it means to be a man. What are some of those messages that the Book of Dares and your work at A Call to Men is working to counter?

[03:23] SPEAKER_00:

So when we talk about the socialization, we're really talking about the collective socialization of manhood and how we pass those messages down to our boys. And those are things like don't ask for help. Always make the decisions. Be in charge. Don't show your emotions except for anger. some other messages that are given within that collective socialization of manhood.

[03:45]

And we've coined the term called the man box, which just kind of is an abbreviated version or a statement that summarizes the collective socialization of manhood. And you can imagine all of the characteristics that go into the man box. And some of those things, and this is what we teach our boys as well, very early on, is that women and girls have less value than men and boys. Those are some messages that our boys get early on from society. I'm not talking about our parents of the boys necessarily, but from society. These are the messages that they're given through culture, through the video games, through their music, all of those types of things.

[04:22]

Less value, that women are the property of men on some level, and that women and girls are objects and sexual objects. So that's the collective socialization of manhood we're talking about. And I know Anne-Marie may want to add some things to that.

[04:37] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, Justin, we still live in a culture where the man box dominates. And I have a 12-year-old son, so I see this on a daily basis. The teachings of the man box still police our boys. They really demand that they obey, and we see punishment when they fall short. And this leaves our boys vulnerable to depression, to anxiety, to suicide. to high-risk behaviors like vaping and alcohol and drug use.

[05:03]

And the Book of Dares is really designed to push back against that socialization in a way that the boys really want to participate in and that's fun for them.

[05:13] SPEAKER_01:

So I'm a dad of two girls. I have two elementary age girls. And I think probably two years ago or so, I would have said that some of this talk about toxic masculinity or these unhealthy messages was maybe a little overblown. And maybe kids weren't really getting those messages as part of that collective socialization. But then I saw football. I saw peewee football up close for a whole season, went to the games, went to the practices.

[05:40]

And the man box is alive and well in football. What do you think it is about the way we approach athletics that, I mean, I would say specifically encourages some of these unhealthy attitudes and mindsets? What's going on there?

[05:55] SPEAKER_00:

That's a great question. And yes, unfortunately, the man box is alive and well, and we need to do everything we can to dismantle it, deconstruct it. And the Book of Dares really helps to do that. So those messages are given again from one generation to the next. They're passed down and you're even seeing it in, you know, as you say, in youth football. And it's not just there, though.

[06:17]

It's in other areas. of our society that boys are taught that they have to be tough, that they can't be anything like a girl because girls, again, are seen as having less value than boys. So it's important that we start to interrupt that. And that's what this conversation is. That's what we want to do in our school systems. That's what the Book of Dears does as well.

[06:40] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, Justin, if I could just add, I'll share with you that when my son Jack was in the first grade, He came home from school. He had just started the first grade. He came home from school and he was like, hey, mom, boys rule, girls drool. So I can't stress enough how early, especially once they are in a peer environment, how early the socialization piece kicks in. And that so often at that school age, five, six, seven, eight, and now my son's in middle school, that differences are considered to be weaknesses. And what we really need to be doing is intentionally celebrating the the uniqueness in all of our children.

[07:17]

And so we've written dares that are designed to help boys identify the things that they might call out or pick on somebody for and challenge them to praise them instead. And we know, based on our work at A Call to Men, that this not only helps build trust and deepen friendships, but it's going to help those boys embrace their own differences and love themselves. So that's why we focused on authenticity in the book of dares and all the dares in the book are designed to ladder up to promote healthy manhood, authenticity and gender equity. And when we talk about authenticity, you know, we just want our kids to be who they were created to be. We want them to be, you know, my son, Jack, I want him to be tough and strong. Sure.

[07:59]

But he can also be kind hearted and expressive. He loves basketball and golf. He also loves art and theater. And I want to celebrate all of that in him, not just the parts that our society deem are important to its view of boyhood and ultimately his manhood.

[08:15] SPEAKER_01:

Let's talk, if we could, about why this is written as a book of dares. Talk to us about that kind of vehicle, a dare, for getting some of these insights across to young men.

[08:26] SPEAKER_00:

Well, we spoke with thousands of boys around the world just about the idea of dares. And unanimously, the boys agree that the dares are terrifying on one hand and fascinating on the other. And it's impossible to know the outcome of a dare and that it was scary to imagine a bad one for the boys. So we really wanted to create these positive challenges. They were excited about that idea, the boys that we interviewed. And with every dare, there's a potential For embarrassment and shame, but not here with these dares.

[08:56]

That's what the experience of those boys had been. And we wanted to change those experiences, but also make it really fun and interesting for them.

[09:05] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, one that jumped out at me was dare to wear a female athlete's jersey. You know, buy yourself a jersey that has a female athlete's. you know, name and number on it. Any feedback on that one, you know, from boys who took that dare or reactions when boys hear about that dare?

[09:20] SPEAKER_00:

Yes, actually. And I think that when we were writing this dare, the women's soccer team had just won the World Cup. And it was exciting time. And, you know, a lot of the boys that we interviewed were soccer players as well. And they were excited about it. So we really wanted them to be able to show, well, how can you let people know that you really respect what these athletes had done who happened to be women?

[09:45]

How can you show that? And so we decided that wearing a jersey and you look at with gymnastics, with Simone and with tennis, with Serena Williams, and there's so many other women athletes who are really superior on their level for their sport. And why not celebrate them? So that's what we really wanted to do. And it really brings awareness to those women, to their sport. And we really felt like that was important.

[10:11]

And the boys loved it.

[10:13] SPEAKER_01:

Another one that jumped out at me was dare to name three emotions you felt today. Why is that one so difficult for boys who may really struggle to name three emotions they felt today?

[10:24] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So you would be surprised how many boys and grown men can't do this. And what I've found, you know, especially with my son, is that so often as parents, and I'll admit, I'm type A, problem solver, mama in charge. When Jack came to me with a problem, big or small, my inclination was to offer a solution. And so I really had to make an effort with him when he was younger and even now, before I offered up any big parent wisdom, to ask him how what was going on made him feel. And that helped him articulate, you know, it made me sad or it made me feel alone or I was really happy about that or nervous.

[11:04]

And that's emotional literacy. And research shows that kids who have more developed emotional literacy are better problem solvers. They have healthier relationships and they're more successful in their personal and professional lives. Now you ask, why is it important to do this with our boys? Well, it's important to do this with our boys because they've been told and the messages that they get in society are to man up, to suck it up, that boys don't cry and to stop acting like a girl. And when we tell our boys not to cry, we're really telling them not to feel.

[11:36]

We're saying stuff that emotion somewhere down deep and that might work for a little while, but eventually it's going to come out and most likely is anger. So that's why we wanted to write a number of dares in the book that directly tie to increasing boys' emotional literacy.

[11:52] SPEAKER_00:

And if I can add, it can also come out in other ways like anxiety and depression and suicidal ideation, which is much higher in boys than in girls. So this is really a preventative measure of this book also. It really prevents a lot of things in the future.

[12:06] SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I think there's just now starting to be a growing awareness of anxiety and depression and things like that among people who might be seen as tough. How are those showing up, especially in athletes, people who are physically very strong but may really be struggling internally and not have the language to describe that or may not feel that it's appropriate for them to share those struggles or ask for help with them?

[12:33] SPEAKER_00:

You just said it. They don't have the language or they don't feel it's appropriate. And we don't have the language because when they were boys, they weren't ever given the language or allowed to talk about these things. They were told to, as Anna Marie said, suck it up, man up, toughen up, don't act like a girl because girls express their emotions. By the way, that's why women live about six years longer than men also, because that emotional stress that never gets released when they're boys and we continue to hold on to as men literally manifests itself as physical stress as we get older. And in addition to that, as men and boys, we're taught that we're not supposed to ask for help.

[13:11]

or we're not supposed to be vulnerable. So we don't go as men to get help or to go to the doctor as early as we need to as preventative measurements. It's more of intervention. So those athletes that you're talking about who make their living in this hyper-masculine space, and we work with a lot of athletes, But if they share that they're vulnerable or even if they're hurt physically, often don't share that. Even when you look at football, the concussion protocols are in place because men are not going to say, I can't go back on the field, coach, because they feel like they're letting their team down or that it's going to be seen as something bad. that's weak.

[13:52]

So these are all the things that the book of dares really kind of sifts out, teases out because we want our boys to share what's going on with them. I have sons when they've been afraid. I don't just say to them, okay, you're afraid. So you don't have to do it. No, we talk about your fear and then we work through it. And on the other side of that, no matter what happens, you feel good about facing your fear.

[14:16]

So it's not to say that we don't, have expectations for our children, but we allow them to have their full range of emotions so that they're healthier and so that they understand things better. And they're better problem solvers later on and better communicators later on.

[14:31] SPEAKER_01:

Now, as I look through each of the dares, it occurs to me as a dad of girls that none of these are things that we only want for boys. All of this applies to girls as well. We want girls to get these messages as well. Why is it so important to speak specifically to boys?

[14:49] SPEAKER_02:

Well, you nailed it. Boys are socialized very differently than girls. And we see healthy manhood, which is embodied throughout this book as the solution to some of our society's most detrimental problems. Everything from domestic violence and dating violence to sexual assault, sexual harassment, pay inequity, male gun violence, school shootings, male suicide, as Ted mentioned. Healthy manhood is the solution to all of these issues. So that's really why we're talking to boys.

[15:21]

We want to promote gender equity in the process, and we know that there'll be positive outcomes from the book.

[15:27] SPEAKER_01:

So the book is The Book of Dares, 100 Ways for Boys to be Kind, Bold, and Brave. Ted and Anna-Marie, if people want to learn more about The Book of Dares or see about getting copies for their students or learn about your other work, where's the best place for them to go online to discover more?

[15:43] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, go to our website, www.acalltomen.org. Everything about the book is there. Your listeners can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, at A Call to Men. And if you do have school administrators out there who are listening who want to partner with us in any way, they can get in touch with me directly through our website.

[16:06] SPEAKER_01:

Well, Ted and Annemarie, thanks so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio. It's been a pleasure.

[16:10] SPEAKER_02:

Thank you, Justin.

[16:11] Announcer:

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