Is My School a Better School Because I Lead It?

[00:01] SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high-performance instructional leadership, Justin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:15] SPEAKER_00:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to be joined once again on the show by Baruti Kefele. better known as Principal Kefele. He is a sought-after speaker, as well as an award-winning teacher and principal. He's the author of numerous books, including Closing the Attitude Gap, Motivating Black Males to Achieve in School and in Life, and The Principal 50, Critical Questions for Inspiring Classroom Excellence. And we're here today to talk about his new book, Is My School a Better School Because I Lead It?, full of critical questions, just like the title suggests.

[00:50] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:53] SPEAKER_00:

Principal Kafele, welcome back to Principal Center Radio.

[00:55] SPEAKER_02:

Good to be back.

[00:56] SPEAKER_00:

So talk to us a little bit about the origin story of Is My School a Better School Because I Lead It? There's a strong question there, a reflective question embedded in the title. And as you work with school leaders, as you work with school districts around the country, I see you on airplanes all the time. What prompted you to ask this question in the form of a book?

[01:16] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's a question that I ask myself often. On a regular basis as a principal at dismissal time, I'd be standing outside just seeing the youngsters leave, seeing the students leave. And once the campus was cleared, I would just kind of stand there and stare at the facade of the building. And I'd ask myself the question, is my school a better school? Because with the emphasis on that word, because I lead it. Is there something about my presence that makes a difference or could someone else come here and raise the probability for the success of the children that attend my school?

[01:58]

And of the 180 days or plus days of school, many days, my answer was no. It was an emphatic no. That school is not a better school because I led it today. So that forced me to have to look within as to why and what would be the strategy, the goal and the strategy to come back tomorrow stronger than ever. And I'll say right at the outset, the reason that I would say no, because it was pretty much consistent on those days. It was because there was nothing about my practice that day that translated into instructional leadership.

[02:34]

I felt that and I feel that. as a leader instructional leadership has got to be at the core of what we do so here i had a day and i'm looking at the building and i'm saying what is it about me because i learned many years ago and i guess i embraced it as my own i was told and then i went on and said okay i'm going to run with this that the purpose of the supervision of our teachers is the continued improvement of instruction. So if I'm going to internalize that, I'm going to own that, and that is my personal purpose for supervision, the continued improvement of instruction, but there was nothing about my practice that translated into that, then I'm saying that I had a bad day. This school was not a better school because I led it because there was nothing about my leadership that made a teacher better and therefore put a student at a better position for success. So now I got to go back to the lab, so to speak,

[03:26]

and consider what do I need to do to ensure that my leadership matters in a classroom or classrooms, plural, tomorrow. By going through that ritual every day, I said, I need to write a book about this. And first I was writing blogs about it. And I said, I need to write a book about this. And I went on and wrote it. So the book is a book that instead of looking at leadership practices per se, it's looking at the leader.

[03:54]

So I'm making the distinction between leadership practice and leader of the school. And I put these questions together to compel people. the leader to look within oneself to say, who am I as the leader of this school? And whatever that conclusion is, who I am, is it consistent with the evidence of who I am as the leader of this school and is my contention and the evidence consistent with the perceptions that staff and students have of my leadership of this school? Are they aligned? or is there a disconnect?

[04:31]

So that's the premise for the book.

[04:33] SPEAKER_00:

You know, I think so many of us in this profession would answer the same way that, you know, maybe today not, but clearly there's a power in asking that question over and over again and in moving closer to an answer that you feel good about. What were some of the early changes or the things that would frequently get you back to where you felt like you were making a difference? If today was not the day I wanted it to be, if I was not the leader I wanted to be today, what were some of the realizations that you had as a result of asking that question and changing your approach?

[05:03] SPEAKER_02:

I may have had a day where, for whatever the reason, discipline was an issue, to use that as an example. But if discipline is an issue, then I got to go back to me. What is it about the climate and the culture of this school that discipline is manifesting as an issue? Because I always say, you know, we talk about classroom management. We talk about undesirable behaviors. We talk about discipline.

[05:27]

But I always say that, well, those things are a manifestation of a bigger macro picture. And that bigger macro picture is the overall climate culture of the building and certainly distinguishing one from the other climate culture. So I'm saying to myself, I'm saying to others that we've got to examine the climate and culture of this school. And as I examine the climate and culture, as I examine those things that kept me off my path, off my course, I said, I've got to address that. I've got to deal with that. I've got to give attention to that so that discipline is not one of my problems.

[06:00]

As I got into the questions and being consistent with what I said about the who of leadership, I've got this question that pretty much underscores everything else in that book. And the question reads, is my leadership driven by a leadership philosophy? that is culminated into a leadership style, which is now habitual and can be articulated. So when I pose that question to a leader in a seminar or one-to-one, whatever it is, I'm saying, leader, when I come to your school and I see you in action, what am I going to see? Am I going to see random leadership or said differently, administrative leadership or Or am I seeing something that's thought out? Am I seeing something this rooted in something else, maybe rooted in who you are personally?

[06:52]

Like when I think about my own leadership philosophy, which became my leadership style, it was rooted in who I am as Baruti Kafele. So making the distinction between Baruti Kafele, Principal Kafele. So Baruti Kafele is being a man that wants to see change in society. And since I was working with urban inner city students of color, then changing those realities for those kids. So that's who Baruti Kafele was, which informed Principal Kafele. So now Principal Kafele, Say, well, I've got to have this style that addresses those unique needs and unique issues and concerns within the community that enables young people to rise to a higher level of accomplishment.

[07:34]

So that informed who I became as leader, leadership philosophy, how I've got to lead, which ultimately became my style of leadership. So I don't necessarily expect to see someone else leading like me because how I led is rooted in who I am. But I'm asking, leader, can you verbalize, can you articulate or express what your philosophy of effective leadership is for your unique school students and staff, which becomes your style of leadership? So that that question alone could take a whole workshop, you know, because there's so much there that a lot of folks in the room have not considered. You know, you got a lot of people leaving schools who just kind of walk into the building and just go or just as things come to them. Here I go reacting and responding.

[08:25]

But then you got this other one is saying, look, this is who I am. This is how I've got to get it done. This is the way I go about doing it. So you got folks sitting in the room who haven't necessarily considered that. So they're just going. They're just going.

[08:41]

And I want to change that. I don't I don't want you to just go. I want you to be somebody. And whatever that is you're going to be, let that drive everything that emanates out of your leadership as the leader of the school.

[08:54] SPEAKER_00:

It's really interesting to hear you speak about philosophy, leadership philosophy and who you are, because it's one of those things that in preparation programs, people are often asked, you know, as part of their graduate program or undergraduate program, to write out a philosophy of education is one of those kind of classic assignments. But once we get on the job, it seems like that immediately goes out the window. And it's all about, you know, as you said, all the administrative stuff, the rapid pace, everything's coming at you. You've got to make decisions and deal with problems and answer questions and make those decisions that come at you so fast. So it's really interesting to me to hear you talk so deliberately about philosophy and identity as a leader. What are some of the sub questions, you know, as you go down that rabbit hole, where did that take you next in terms of figuring out who do I need to be as a leader to serve these students to serve this community?

[09:44]

What other questions do people find in the book to continue that inquiry?

[09:46] SPEAKER_02:

What I did was I looked at seven areas that I felt were significant in terms of that leader being in touch with self. And I broke them down into leadership identity, leadership presence, leadership impact, leadership mission, leadership purpose, leadership vision, and leadership value. I said, let's look at each of these individually. So focusing on identity. And I tend to spend a lot of time with identity when I'm doing leadership seminars and workshops. And I asked the question, principal, as it relates to who you are as an individual leader of your school, who are you?

[10:23]

And in terms of unpacking that, I like to use the example of a person who wears a uniform in their profession, such as the pilot. pilot wears a uniform. If a pilot walks into the room that we're having the seminar out of uniform, we don't know what that person does professionally. We can make an assumption that maybe it's a principal because they came into that room, but we don't know what they do. But as soon as they put that uniform on, we know exactly what they do. And not only do we know what they do, but we have expectation for how they do it just because of the uniform.

[10:59]

So I'm saying the principal When you walk into your building and your staff and your students see you, you're in your principal's uniform, so to speak. What do they see? What does that mean? Who are you as you walk into the school? So I say to folks, I say, you know, in terms of me, in terms of making the point, I said, I wear, just like yourself as a principal, I wore a lot of hats, but none of those hats mattered to me relative to how the students perceived me. There was only one hat that mattered, and that was the hat that was written across the front, the word motivator.

[11:37]

I said, when students see me I just want them to see there's that guy, our principal, that says things that fire me up, says things that get me excited about myself, about learning and about the prospects for my future. I want it to be that guy. So I was very intentional, very deliberate about my identity as the leader of that school that students and staff say, Principal Fele, he motivates me. He inspires me. He makes a believer out of me. He makes me think I can do things that I had not conceptualized I could do.

[12:15]

I was very intentional about that perception of my leadership in the building. So leadership identity. Who am I? But if I can couple that, I say, is who I think I am as the leader of the school consistent with the evidence of who I actually am as the leader of the school? So I can sit here on the podcast and say everything that I just said. But then you go and interview some folks that work with me and they say, oh, this guy was horrible.

[12:42]

This guy was unapproachable. This guy wasn't about kids. So now there's this disconnect between who I think I am. And who I really am, which you tie that now into the perception that staff have of us and you come full circle. So I say to principals, assistant principals, aspiring principals and even teachers, make sure to the best of your ability that who you think you are is supported by the evidence that's there for all to see. but also make sure you align that with how you're being perceived.

[13:14]

Because see, when I say to principals, when you and I were growing up and we were kids and our parents told us sticks and stones may break our bones, but names may never harm us, that doesn't fly in the principalship. What staff perceive us to be is actually who we are in their eyes. So we can claim that we're X, Y, and Z, but whomever staff sees us as, that's who they're following. So we wanna make sure that there's alignment between their perception as best we can and the contention that we hold of who we are as leader.

[13:47] SPEAKER_00:

So these are tough questions. Help us understand how we can feel better and do better while asking tough questions like this, because I feel like the courage that it takes to ask the kind of question that you're asking at the end of a tough day, you know, when you've been in the trenches all day, maybe getting yelled at by parents occasionally, dealing with some things that you didn't go to college for and would prefer not to have dealt with. Where is the strength that comes from asking these tough questions of ourselves?

[14:16] SPEAKER_02:

I'm a strong advocate of thought partnership. You need that person in your life. When I was during my years of principalship, there was no language for thought partnership. It doesn't mean that the concept didn't exist, but there was no language. Like for most of my years in education, there was no language for equity. Now, I call myself an equitable practitioner from the first day I set foot in the school in 1988 as a teacher, but I couldn't apply a name to it.

[14:46]

It was just something innately in myself that said, I've got to meet kids where they are. I can't treat them monolithically. But I couldn't say that's equitable practice because there's no language for that. So now when we talk about thought partnership, I never had anyone say to me, do you have a thought partner? I knew I had folks I leaned on. But I never thought about it in those terms.

[15:09]

So now when you talk about tough questions like this, because these are tough questions, these are the questions, these 35 or the 50 from the principal 50. These are the questions in an eight hour seminar or six hour seminar that nobody in the room wants to deal with publicly. They're comfortable in addressing these questions in their at their tables with people that they feel comfortable with. But in terms of now, let's report out and let Principal Caffele hear what you guys discussed. Nobody wants to talk about that because the questions create uneasiness. They create discomfort and internal tension, which they're designed to do.

[15:44]

Because I always say, you don't have to motivate somebody. Help them to feel a sense of discomfort within their comfort. And now there's more motivation to change, and it's going to be much more long-lasting. So thought partnership allows me to have that conversation with someone that I can be mutually vulnerable with, transparent with. And now we kind of bounce these things off because...

[16:06]

that person is going to see qualities and traits in me that I'm not going to see within myself. So now I've got someone that I can go, hey, partner, who am I in your eyes? And they may come with me, come to me with something fundamentally different from my own self-perception, right? How do you see the students perceiving me of the times you've seen me amongst students, maybe at a sporting event, extracurricular activity, whatever the case may be? What do you see? Because in my mind, they gravitate to me.

[16:35]

And you may see, ah, they're kind of scared of you. They're kind of intimidated by you, whatever the case may be. And myself not seeing that because I'm looking at it solely through my own lens.

[16:45] SPEAKER_00:

I know in your previous books that we've talked about, you know, a lot of those same questions can be asked of their own practice by teachers. You know, the, am I holding students to high standards or am I being too mean? You know, do I, am I coming across the way I want to? Am I having the impact that I want to? What do you think about a principal who is asking some of these tough questions and thinking about the situation they're in and just wondering if where they are right now, if the school that they are in right now is a good fit for them? You know, I think we all go through, you know, periods of self-doubt, but also different seasons in our lives where we think, you know, right now this school needs someone who, you know, and I know some of that is around family.

[17:26]

You know, if I have young kids and I feel like I can't put in the time or I, you know, have, you know, just different things going on in my life. Where do you see the role of these questions in shaping some of those decisions and where have you seen people make the right decision because of that?

[17:40] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's a great question, because I feel that these questions will help a leader or an educator in general to come to that realization or that conclusion as to whether or not I'm in the right place. Like I think about the second area where we talk about presence, your leadership presence. And the initial question is, what does my leadership presence represent to my school? Right. And as we unpack that conversation. What I'm saying to a leader is I'm not talking about the things you say verbally now.

[18:07]

I'm saying when you walk into that building and your mouth is shut and it's just this, the face, the body and your presence in that building, what message does it convey to your students and staff, to your parents, to the outside community, just you? And that forces a room to get very quiet because now you're engaged in some deep reflection about something that you've probably never considered before in your life, your professional life. What does my presence speak? Because I'm saying to the leader, your presence is potentially louder than your voice. Have you considered that? Just you standing at any given spot in your building, what is it saying?

[18:53]

Are you in tune with it? So going to your question, imagine that leader who's in a place where your presence is not conveying the intended message, and you're finding that it's difficult for you to turn that corner. Because see, I've been there. I led four different schools, but one of those four schools, I knew that this wasn't the place for me. It wasn't the right fit. So I was able to come to that conclusion on a variety of different variables.

[19:19]

And I said, I got to get back to what I'm accustomed to. I was in a different part of the state that was a part of the state that I really had no knowledge of. And I said, I got to get back to my base where I've got reputation, where I know the kids, where I know the city, where I know the politics and be able to function in that regard. And did. So I knew just based on Being in that space for X amount of time that I couldn't lead at the level that I want to lead in that space and made the decision, let me move on.

[19:51] SPEAKER_00:

And that's a hard decision to make, isn't it?

[19:53] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's tough.

[19:54] SPEAKER_00:

I mean, it feels like the correct approach to leadership is do a perfect job and stay there forever. saying to yourself you know this is not the situation where i need to be it's so hard to come to terms with that um what would you say to someone who has a lot of kind of mixed feelings about their situation you know there's always going to be criticism right no principle is immune to criticism no principle goes through their career just everybody being happy with everything they do but what would you say to someone who is is really wondering like Is this a situation that I need to get out of in order to allow the school to move forward? Is this a situation that I need to move on from in order to protect my own health? What are some of the considerations that people should be thinking about?

[20:39] SPEAKER_02:

Well, as I listened to the question, on the one hand, you said in terms of the school moving forward, but then you talked about whether or not it's a good situation for me and i want to distinguish those because when we talk about the school moving forward then i got to ask the question am i one of the impediments to the school moving forward i gotta have that honest conversation with myself that's that game film so to speak that i talk about all the time that self-reflection is there something about my leadership Is there something that I feel I have an inability to do, whether it be by constraints or just shortcomings on my own as far as my leadership, that I cannot perform at a high level here? So one has to have that honest conversation. That self-reflection is key. Am I in a situation that I just cannot grow? But when you juxtapose that with just kind of having balance in one's life and feeling good about being in a certain situation, because see,

[21:37]

Going back to the example I gave you with the school I left, I was leading it fine, they told me. When I resigned, the board refused my resignation. They sent the community, the clergy, you name it, to my office for seven days to convince me to stay. But going to the second part of your question, I wasn't happy, right? So I could lead it, but I didn't have a sense of happiness inside of So I said, but I don't want to be there because I'm not happy. I'm not content.

[22:06]

There were things about it that I said I just don't enjoy. So I left. So that principle has to look at that. Is it that I'm struggling because of me or is it that I'm struggling because I just don't like the fit? You know, it's like you got certain friends who are in your life for a season, but they're not necessarily meant to go for the long haul with you. Right.

[22:27]

Well, certain stops that we make in administration and education are It might just be for a season, but it's not meant to be for the long haul. It might be something to prepare you for a next level. But one has to come to grips with that to say, is this where I want to hang my hat for a long time or do I want to get somewhere else? But you got to have that honest conversation with you. And if you got that thought partnership and that's not limited to one person, but you got them other folks whose opinions that you deem are necessary, then listen to those folks as well, because maybe they can tell you some things that you don't even see about yourself.

[23:00] SPEAKER_00:

A concept that that brings up for me is loyalty. This idea that if I leave my school, I'm being disloyal. Or if I leave this community and maybe return to somewhere else, I'm being disloyal. And we've all seen the research that says the longer a principal stays, typically the better for students. Principal turnover is generally a bad thing. We get some of the best results in cases where principals have been in the same job for 10 years.

[23:29]

I know that's probably getting to be kind of unusual in this profession these days. So of course, we're going to feel a certain amount of hesitation thinking about that question. But for me, I've always felt like the loyalty that we have to our students, to our profession, to our organization. It needs to be loyalty to the profession rather than just loyalty locally. And when I think about people who have made ethical lapses or who have gotten tangled up in other people's ethical lapses, you know, they might have felt a sense of loyalty to that person or to that organization that caused them to let go of their loyalty to the profession and to their values and their character. But, you know, I think even in a situation where there's, you know, there's no pressure, there's nothing bad happening, that sense of loyalty, like if people feel like I could never leave this school, I just feel like that's a little bit misplaced, you know, that our loyalty ultimately should be to the profession, to, you know, like these students that we have for their four years of high school or their three years of middle school or their six years of elementary school or whatever.

[24:34]

The students are going to change. We'll be loyal to them while we have them. They're going to move on. A lot of our teachers will move on. And we may move on to another school. What's your take on that?

[24:42]

Because I know it's a tough issue for a lot of people to really get a handle on.

[24:46] SPEAKER_02:

I'm in agreement with that. Here's the exception. When you talk about communities that mirror communities I've worked in, that these large numbers, percentages of children of color with parents where fathers are missing, right? You become that guy. And you've got not only your school community that is counting on you because you're that guy, you're that void. You're filling that void in those kids' lives.

[25:13]

So you've got this community that's counting on you to be there. But then you've got this younger community who's not there yet, who are banking on you being there when their children get to school. Now, you can't be savior for all of them. But you've got this understanding of what that's all about, particularly when you've developed that level of credibility and you've got a whole community that's counting on you, that respects you, that appreciates you, that looks up to you, etc. You feel some sense of obligation to stick around. It was a tough, tough decision for me to leave my last school, North Tech, for that reason, because I knew that there were parents of children who were in elementary school.

[25:57]

They were hoping that I was going to stick around. Why do I know that? Because they told me that they were hoping I would stick around and see their kids through. And here I left that school eight years ago. And I'm still hearing from parents saying, I just wish you had been there for my children. I wish you had been there for my children.

[26:13]

So that's the dynamic. But as you said, you know, we're humans. So we're going to make moves. We're not going to stay somewhere forever. But that's something different. This stays in the back of my mind because when you got somebody that's good, that's effective, that's doing the part, in this case, leadership, you don't know what you're going to get next.

[26:32]

You don't know who's coming. And you feel that obligation, almost guilt, that you want to be there for those kids because you were there for that present generation of kids.

[26:41] SPEAKER_00:

So the book is Is My School a Better School? Because I Lead It. So Principal Kefele, if people want to learn more about the book, follow you online, where's the best place for them to find you?

[26:52] SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, find me at principalcafele.com, K-A-F as in Frank, E-L-E, principalcafele.com. And that will link you to where the books are sold. It's my school, a better school because I lead it in anything else I've written, including blogs and articles and videos. So everything is there.

[27:12]

And then on Facebook and Twitter, I'm at Principal Cafele. You can't friend me on Facebook, but you can follow me. And then on Twitter, obviously, you follow both at Principal Cafele. And then we're in. I do my Facebook Live videos on Sunday mornings at 10 o'clock Eastern Time. Come on and join me first and second Sunday.

[27:30] SPEAKER_00:

Thanks so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio. It's been a pleasure.

[27:32] SPEAKER_02:

Yes, sir. Thank you.

[27:33] Announcer:

Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.